Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Here M. Harding taketh in hand to answer the authorities by me alleged, & that with this special note of remembrance in the Margin, M. Ivelles allegation solved. It appeareth, his solutions be very short. For what so ever authority be alleged, it is sufficient for him to say, what then? For where as I said, the Common Service, and Ministration in the Churches of Rome, and Milan, and other places within Italy, was pronounced unto the people in Latin, for that then the Latin tongue was the Common Natural speech of that Country, & that therefore Arnobius calleth the same Latin Tongue, Sermonem Italum: & further said, that long after that time, S. Ambrose in Milan, S. Augustine in Africa, and S. Gregory in Rome preached unto the Vulgar People in Latin, & in the same tongue ministered the Common Prayers: all this is soon answered: for M. Harding saith, What then?
Here M. Harding taketh in hande to answeare the authorities by mee alleged, & that with this special note of remembrance in the Margin, M. Iuelles allegation soluted. It appeareth, his solutions be very shorte. For what so euer authoritie be alleged, it is sufficient for him to say, vvhat then? For where as I saide, the Common Seruice, and Ministration in the Churches of Rome, and Millane, and other places within Italy, was pronounced vnto the people in Latine, for that then the Latine tongue was the Common Natural speache of that Countrie, & that therefore Arnobius calleth the same Latine Tongue, Sermonem Italum: & further saide, that longe after that time, S. Ambrose in Millane, S. Augustine in Aphrica, and S. Gregorie in Rome preached vnto the Uulgare People in Latine, & in the same tongue ministred the Common Praiers: al this is soone answeared: for M. Hardinge saithe, VVhat then?
the saying of S. Hierome, that the noise of the people sounding out Amen, together, was like the sound of a thunder: Likewise the saying of Chrysostom, Communes preces & à populo,
& à sacerdote fiunt, & omnes unam dicunt orationem. Been precatur Sacerdos populo, & been precatur populus Sacerdoti &c. Common petitions be
⟨p. 169⟩
made together, both of the people, and of the Priest: all together say one prayer. The Priest wisheth well unto the people, and the people unto the Priest. But, What then, saith M. Harding? Why, what then? Thinketh M. Harding that the authority of Arnobius, S. Ambrose, S. Augustine, S. Basil, S. Hierome, S. Chrysostom, and other holy Fathers is so light, that he is able to blow them all away, with these two vain syllables, what then? He will say, I grant you the prayers were used in the Greek, and Latin tongue. But ye have not proved the same of any other tongue, that was Barbarous. I have already proved the same of the Syrian tongue, which is neither Greek, nor Latin: & therefore by M. Hardinges judgement, mere barbarous. Hereafter, God willing, I shall show the like largely, & at full, of other tongues. In the mean season,
it may stand M. Harding in good stead, if it shall please him to show these privileges, granted unto the Greek, and Latin tongue, and how they be specially sanctified above others: that in them only we may make our Common Petitions unto God, & in other tongues we may not make them. Touching the place of S. Basil, and the other of S. Chrysostom, M. Harding answereth so, as though he had no great regard, what he say.
For he avoutcheth the thing for true, that the simplest of all the people, knoweth to be apparent false: that is, that the people now answereth the Priest in the time of the holy Mysteries, as they did in Chrysostoms time. The people (sayeth he) answered then, as now also they answer. He taketh no shame to say, The people answereth the Priest, and yet knoweth, that the people Answereth not the Priest. Thus by this Resolution, He Answereth, that Answereth nothing: He Answereth, that knoweth not, neither what is demanded, nor what to Answer:
I alleged the saieinge of S. Basile, 1That the sounde of Menne, Wemen, and Children prayeinge in the Church togeather, seemed like the sounde of the whaues beatinge against the sea bankes:2 the saieinge of S. Hierome, that the noise of the people soundinge out Amen, togeather, was like the sounde of a thunder: Likewise the saying of Chrysostome, Communes preces & à populo, 3& à sacerdote fiunt, & omnes vnam dicunt orationem. Bene precatur Sacerdos populo, & bene precatur populꝰ Sacerdoti &c. Cōmon petitions be ⟨p. 169⟩made togeather, bothe of the people, and of the Priest: al togeather saye one praier. The Prieste wisheth wel vnto the people, and the people vnto the Priest. But, VVhat then, saithe M. Hardinge? Why, vvhat then? Thinketh M. Hardinge that thauthoritie of Arnobius, S. Ambrose, S. Augustine, S. Basile, S. Hierome, S. Chrysostome, and other holy Fathers is so light, that he is hable to blowe them al away, with these two vaine syllables, vvhat then? He wil say, I graunte you the praiers were vsed in the Greeke, and Latine tongue. But ye haue not prooued the same of any other tongue, that was Barbarous. I haue already prooued the same of the Syrian tongue, which is neither Greeke, nor Latine: & therfore by M. Hardinges iudgement, méere barbarous. Hereafter, God willinge, I shal shewe the like largely, & at ful, of other tongues. In the meane season, 4it may stande M. Hardinge in good stéede, if it shal please him to shewe these priuileges, graunted vnto the Gréeke, and Latine tongue, and howe they be specially sanctified aboue others: yt in them onely we may make our Common Petitions vnto God, & in other tongues we may not make them. Touchinge the place of S. Basile, and thother of S. Chrysostome, M. Harding answeareth so, as though he had no great regarde, what he saye. 5For he auoutcheth ye thinge for true, that the simplest of al the people, knoweth to be apparent false: that is, that the people now answeareth the Priest in the time of the holy Mysteries, as they did in Chrysostomes time. The people (saieth he) ansvveared then, as novve also they ansvveare. He taketh no shame to saie, The people ansvveareth the Prieste, and yet knoweth, that the people Answeareth not the Prieste. Thus by this Resolution, He Answeareth, that Answeareth nothinge: He Answeareth, that knoweth not, neither what is demaunded, nor what to Answeare:
1Basil. Hexamer. 4.
2Hieron. in Secundo prooemio ad Galat.
3Chrysostom. 2. Corin. homi. 18.
4The privilege of the Greek, and Latin tongue.The priuilege of the Greeke, and Latine tongue.
5M. Harding avoutcheth open untruth.M. Hardinge auoutcheth open vntrueth.
to be short, He Answereth, that holdeth his peace: and so, Answering, and not Answering, in M. Hardinges judgement is all one thing. 1But S. Chrysostome saieth, Et cum Spiritu tuo, nihil aliud est, quàm ea, quae sunt Eucharistiae, communia sunt omnia. Neque enim ille solus gratias agit, sed populus omnis. The Lorde be with thy Sprite (which words the whole people answereth unto the Priest) is nothing else to say, but, The things that pertain to thanks giving, are all common. For it is not the Priest only, that giveth thanks, but also all the people.2 Likewise S. Ambrose, Imperitus nescit finem orationis, & non respondet Amen, id est, verum sit, ut firmetur benedictio. Per hoc enim impletur confirmatio precis, cùm respondetur Amen, & omnia dicta rei testimonio in audientium animis confirmantur. The ignorant knoweth not the end of the prayer, and answereth not, Amen, that is to say, so be it, that the blessing may be confirmed. For thereby the confirmation of the prayer is fulfilled, when Amen is answered, and all the words, that be spoken, by the testimony of the thing it self are confirmed in the minds of the hearers. Thus in Chrysostoms time the whole people, and the Priest in their Common Service talked, and prayed together.
to be shorte, He Answeareth, that holdeth his peace: and so, Answearinge, and not Answearinge, in M. Hardinges iudgement is al one thinge. 1But S. Chrysostome saieth, Et cum Spiritu tuo, nihil aliud est, quàm ea, quae sunt Eucharistiae, communia sunt omnia. Neque enim ille solus gratias agit, sed populus omnis. The Lorde be with thy Sprite (whiche woordes the whole people answeareth vnto the Priest) is nothinge els to saie, but, The thinges that perteine to thankes geuinge, are al common. For it is not the Prieste onely, that geueth thankes, but also al the people.2 Likewise S. Ambrose, Imperitus nescit finem orationis, & non respondet Amen, id est, verum sit, vt firmetur benedictio. Per hoc enim impletur confirmatio precis, cùm respondetur Amen, & omnia dicta rei testimonio in audientium animis confirmantur. The ignorant knoweth not the ende of the prayer, and answeareth not, Amen, that is to say, so be it, that the blissinge may be confirmed. For thereby the confirmation of the praier is fulfilled, when Amen is answeared, and al the woordes, that be spoken, by the testimonie of the thinge it selfe are confirmed in the mindes of the hearers. Thus in Chrysostomes time the whole people, and the Prieste in their Common Seruice talkte, and praied togeather.
