Th'overthrow of stage-plays, by the way of controversy betwixt D. Gager and D. Rainoldes…Th'overthrow of stage-playes, by the way of controversie betwixt D. Gager and D. Rainoldes…
Th'overthrow of stage-plays, by the way of controversy betwixt D. Gager and D. Rainoldes wherein all the reasons that can be made for them are notably refuted; th'objections answered, and the case so cleared and resolved, as that the judgement of any man, that is not froward and perverse, may easily be satisfied. Wherein is manifestly proved, that it is not only unlawful to be an actor, but a beholder of those vanities. Whereunto are added also and annexed in th'end certain latin letters betwixt the said Master Rainoldes, and D. Gentiles, reader of the civill law in Oxford, concerning the same matter.Th'overthrow of stage-playes, by the way of controversie betwixt D. Gager and D. Rainoldes wherein all the reasons that can be made for them are notably refuted; th'objections aunswered, and the case so cleared and resolved, as that the iudgement of any man, that is not froward and perverse, may easelie be satisfied. Wherein is manifestly proved, that it is not onely vnlawfull to bee an actor, but a beholder of those vanities. Wherevnto are added also and annexed in th'end certeine latine letters betwixt the sayed Maister Rainoldes, and D. Gentiles, reader of the civill law in Oxford, concerning the same matter.
John Rainolds 1549–1607Middelburg: printed by Richard Schilders, 1599
[8], 163, [1], 164-190, [1] p. · 74k words · STC 20616 · ESTC S115568
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
but principally, places elected and chosen out of orations, or stories, or other kind of 5writings worthy that care and study; that they 6may accustom themselves to the best, and have their style holpen many ways thereby. Finally, for bframing of speech, voice, and gesture, he would not have them imitate the voice of Women, or old men; nor express the faults of drunkenness; nor be taught to play the slaves; nor learn the affection and passion of love, of covetousness, of fear. Which things are neither necessary, saith he, 7for an orator; and 8they do corrupt the mind, in childhood specially, while it is tender yet and unacquainted with things; because 9such as those are whom we imitate much, such our selves become. Behold the great difference between a heathen mans conceit of the instructing of orators for civill causes: & yours, of Christian Preachers, or what soever place your Students shall be called to in Church or Common weal, at least of honest men and Christians.
but principally, places elected and chosen out of orations, or stories, or other kind of 5writings worthy that care and studie; that they 6may accustome themselves to the best, and have their style holpen manie wayes thereby. Finallie, for bframing of speech, voice, and gesture, he would not haue them imitate the voice of Women, or old men; nor expresse the fautes of drunkennes; nor be taught to play the slaves; nor learne the affection and passion of love, of couetousnes, of feare. Which things are neither necessarie, saith he,
such as those are whom we imitate much, such our selves become. Behold the great difference betweene a heathen mans conceit of the instructing of oratours for civill causes: & yours, of Christian Preachers, or what soeuer place your Studentes shall be called to in Church or Common weale, at least of honest men and Christians.
5Dignorum ea cura voluminum.
6Assuescent optimis.
bLib. 1. ca. 19
7Oratori.
8Mentem, praecipuè in aetate prima teneram adhuc & rudem inficiunt.
9Frequens imitatio transis in mores.Frequēs imitatio transis in mores.
He would have no amatory poems, neither Comedies, no not cMenanders, that is, the 1best of all to be read by his ⟨p. 122⟩youth: you, as if Phaedra's amorous speech expressed by Seneca were nothing without a pe•ce of menstruous cloth sowed to it, do occasion yours to make them selves familiar and well acquainted with Plautus, done far beneath the best. He would have his youth to practise their style in good things, as in 2weapons, which they may use when need shall be: you practise yours in speeches enticing men to Venery, to ribaldry, to scurrility, to whoredom, to incest, to other abominations. He would have his youth to commit most excellent things and words to memory; you pester yours with filth, such filth in Rivals (I am ashamed to rehearse it) as can not be matched, I think, sure very hardly, throughout all Plautus. He would not have his youth 3to counterfeit a woman's voice: you procure Minerva, Penelope, Euryclea, Antonoë, Eurynome, Hippodamia, Melantho, Phaedra, the Nurse, the Nymph, besides I know not whom in the unprinted Comedy, to be played by yours. He would 4not have his youth to represent the faults of drunkenness: yours must flaunt it out in most unmodest guise, with unseemly barbarous carousing songs and speeches, and be defended too by the brave example of Lacedaemonian slaves. He would 5not have his youth to be imbrued and tainted with slavish behaviour: for yours it is an ornament to play the goatherd Melanthius, or a bragging soldier, or a clownish wooer. In fine, he would 6not have his youth to learn the passion of amorousness and love; 7nor to be stage-player-like in action and gesture: you breed yours in stage-playing, as conforming them to convenient action; and teach them to resemble the pangs of love in manner of most amorous Nymphs, with 8burning exclamations, and 9fancies of Poetical fables. St eAustin reproving the course of the world which traineth up their children in Poets wanton tales of Jupiters adulteries, and useth to defend their custom by saying, Hence are words learned, hence is eloquence gotten:
Hee would haue no amatorie poëmes, neither Comedies, no not cMenanders, that is, the 1best of all to be read by his ⟨p. 122⟩youth: you, as if Phaedras amorous speech expressed by Seneca were nothing without a pe•ce of menstruous cloth sowed to it, doe occasion yours to make them selves familiar and well acquainted with Plautus, done farre beneath the best. He would haue his youth to practise their style in good things, as in 2weapons, which they may vse when neede shall be: you practise yours in speeches entising men to Uenerie, to ribauderie, to scurrilitie, to hoordom, to incest, to other abominations. He would haue his youth to commit most excellent thinges and wordes to memorie; you pester yours with filth, such filth in Rivales (I am ashamed to reherse it) as can not be matched, I thinke, sure very hardly, throughout all Plautus. Hee would not haue his youth 3to counterfeit a womans voice: you procur• Minerva, Penelope, Euryclea, Antonoë, Eurynome, Hippodamia, Melantho, Phaedra, the Nurse, the Nymph, besides I know not whom in the vnprinted Comedie, to bee played by yours. Hee would 4not have his youth to represent the faults of drunkennes: yours must flant it out in most vnmodest guise, with vnseemely barbarous carousing songes and speeches, and be defended too by the brave example of Lacedaemonian slaves. Hee would 5not haue his youth to bee imbrued and tainted with slavish behaviour: for yours it is an ornament to play the goteheard Melanthius, or a bragging souldier, or a clownish wooer. In fine, hee would 6not haue his youth to learne the passion of amorousnes and loue; 7nor to bee stage-player-like in action and gesture: you breede yours in stage-playing, as conforming them to convenient action; and teach them to resemble the panges of loue in maner of most amorous Nymphes, with
cLib. 10. ca. 1.
1Omnibus •iusdem operis autoribus abstulit nomen.
dHorat. de art. poet. vives lib. 3. de tratend. disciplin Scalig. poetic. lib. 6. cap. 3.
2Arma sunt hac quodammo do praeparā da semper, ut his, quum res poscet, utaris.Arma sunt hac quodāmo do praeparā da semper, vt his, quum res poscet, vtaris.
forsooth, saith he, belike we could not know these words, imbrem aureum, and gremium, and fucum, and templa caeli, and the rest there written, unless f Terence had brought in a lewd young man proposing Jupiter to him self for an example of whoredom, while he beholdeth on the ⟨p. 123⟩wall a certain painted table, wherein was this picture; how Jupiter sent a 1golden shower, they say, of old time into the 2lap of Danaë, 3under the colour thereof to beguile a woman. And see how he stirreth up himself to lust as it were by the instruction of a heavenly master. But what God? saith he. Even that God which shaketh 4the sanctuaries of heaven with thunder. Should not I, who am a mortal wretch, do the same? Yes in deed I did it, and gladly. 5No, no, saith S. Austin, those words are not learned the more conveniently by means of this dishonesty: but this dishonesty is wrought the more confidently by means of those words. Thus did that discreet and godly Father judge of causing such devises of Poets to be learned by children yea although the Poets were as good as Terence and the children as well inclined as himself. For him self it is, of whom ghe confesseth that 6he learned many profitable words in vain, Poetical fancies; but such as both may be learned in things not vain, & that is a safe way wherein children ought to walk. On which consideration sundry men of note in our memory also, not only among professors of purer religion, but even among the Papists, have advised Schoolmasters & instructors of youth either not to read Terence to their Scholars, or if they will read him, not to read him all. hLudovicus Vives, having declared in general out of iPlutarch touching the reading of Poets, that, unless you use it most warily, it hurteth; and therefore, if a child may be allowed to meddle with it, their writings would be purged first, & filthy matters be wholly cut out of them: Doth wish the same concerning Terence in special for those things which might defile the minds of children with such faults and vices, as naturally we are prone to.
forsooth, saith hee, belike wee could not know these wordes, imbrem aureum, and gremium, and fucum, and templa caeli, and the rest there written, vnlesse f Terence had brought in a lewde young man proposing Iupiter to him selfe for an example of hooredome, while hee beholdeth on the ⟨p. 123⟩wall a certaine painted table, wherein was this picture; how Iupiter sent a 1golden shower, they say, of olde time into the 2lappe of Danaë, 3vnder the colour thereof to beguile a woman. And see how he stirreth vp himselfe to lust as it were by the instruction of a heavenly maister. But what God? saith hee. Even that God which shaketh 4the sanctuaries of heaven with thunder. Should not I, who am a mortall wretch, doe the same? Yes in deed I did it, and gladly. 5No, no, saith S. Austin, those wordes are not learned the more conveniently by meanes of this dishonestie: but this dishonestie is wrought the more confidently by meanes of those wordes. Thus did that discreete and godly Father iudge of causing such devises of Poëts to bee learned by children yea although the Poëts were as good as Terence and the childrē as well inclined as himselfe. For him selfe it is, of whom ghee confesseth that 6hee learned many profitable wordes in vaine, Poëticall fansies; but such as both may bee learned in thinges not vaine, & that is a safe way wherein children ought to walke. On which consideration sundry men of note in our memorie also, not onely among professors of purer religion, but even among the Papists, haue advised Scholemasters & instructors of youth either not to read Terence to their Scholers, or if they will read him, not to read him all. hLudovicus Uives, having declared in generall out of iPlutarch touching the reading of Poëts, that, vnlesse you vse it most warily, it hurteth; and therefore, if a childe may be allowed to meddle with it, their writinges would be purged first, & filthy matters be wholly cut out of them: Doth wish the same concerning Terence in speciall for those thinges which might defile the mindes of children with such faultes and vices, as naturally wee are prone to.
1Imbrem • reum.
2Gremium.
3Fucum.
4Templa […]Templa 〈…〉
5Non omnin• per hanc turpitudinē verba ista commodius discuntur; sed per haec verba turpitudo ista confidē tius perpetraturNon omnin• per hanc turpitudinē verba ista commodius discuntur; sed per haec verba turpitudo ista confidē tius perpetratur
gAug. confess. lib. 1. cap. 15
6Didici in […] multa verba utilia: sed & quae in […] non vanis disci possunt; & ea via […] est in qua pu•ri ambularent.Didici in 〈…〉 multa verba vtilia: sed & quae in 〈…〉 non vanis disci possunt; & ea via 〈…〉 est in qua pu•ri ambularent.
Ignatius Loyola, a man no worse minded in certain points then were the old Jewish kPharisees, whose lsect in his offspring of Jesuits he hath renewed, mdid forbid Terence to be read in schools (unless he were purged) least he should more annoy their manners by his wantonness, then by his Latin help their wits. nGeorgius Fabricius, not seeing how he may be well purged to this purpose, because the conditions of fond or bad persons, as of lovers, •oores, murmurers, misers, fretters, ruffians, varlets, flatterers, ⟨p. 124⟩boasters, bawds, and sycophants, that is, the most of those things which Comedies entreat of, belong to stronger minds, and to an age confirmed and stayed with some judgement, not to unskilful children, before whom they are better omitted and concealed; Fabricius therefore grounding him self upon the judgement of oAristotle, and pQuintilian, both applied to Terence, resolveth that he is not to be read at all to youths of tender years. Whereunto a light of our university and country, D. Humphrey, subscribeth and agreeth, in that upon occasion of showing how Noblemen's children and Gentlemen's should be brought up in learning, qhe saith that they may have Terence read unto them, but them, when they shall be grown in age and judgement. Though doubting least even then too the 7poison of his filthiness may be more forcible then the counter-poison to be used against it he addeth that he would not grant him this place neither in their education, but that Tully had made good account of him, and profited in eloquence by him. Now the same reasons, that, in choice of authors to be read by us, exclude so fine a Poet, and send us unto purer fountains of good literature: do likewise in the practise of style, the frame of speech, and employment of memory, exclude such points and matters as Terence is excluded for, and commend unto us more commendable arguments to exercise our wits, our tongues, our pens in. Which the wise Founders and Governors of the worthy Colleges and companies of Students here among us did very well consider: taking order therefore that by rendering and rehearsing of Aristotle; or Tully;
Ignatius Loiola, a man no worse minded in certaine pointes then were the olde Iewish kPharises, whose lsect in his ofspring of Iesuits hee hath renued, mdid forbidde Terence to bee reade in schooles (vnlesse he were purged) least hee should more anoy their maners by his wantonnes, then by his Latin helpe their wittes. nGeorgius Fabricius, not seeing how he may be well purged to this purpose, because the conditions of fond or bad persons, as of lovers, •oores, murmurers, mizers, fretters, ruffians, varlets, flatterers, ⟨p. 124⟩boasters, bawdes, and sycophants, that is, the most of those things which Comedies entreate of, belong to stronger mindes, and to an age confirmed and stayed with some judgement, not to vnskilfull children, before whom they are better omitted and concealed; Fabricius therefore grounding him selfe vpon the iudgement of oAristotle, and pQuintilian, both applyed to Terence, resolveth that hee is not to bee read at all to youths of tender yeares. Wherevnto a light of our vniversitie and country, D. Humfrye, subscribeth and agreeth, in that vpon occasion of shewing how Noblemens children and Gentlemens should bee brought vp in learning, qhe saith that they may haue Terence reade vnto them, but them, when they shall be growen in age and iudgement. Though douting least even then too the 7poyson of his filthines may be more forcible then the coūter-poyson to be vsed against it he addeth that hee would not graunt him this place neither in their education, but that Tullie had made good account of him, and prosited in eloquence by him. Now the same reasons, that, in choise of autours to be read by vs, exclude so fine a Poët, and send vs vnto purer fountaines of good literature: doe likewise in the practise of style, the frame of speech, and imployment of memorie, exclude such points and matters as Terence is excluded for, and commend vnto vs more commendable arguments to exercise our wittes, our tounges, our pennes in. Which the wise Founders and Governours of the worthy Colleges and companies of Students here among vs did very well consider: taking order therefore that by rendring and rehearsing of Aristotle; or Tullie;
by writing, pronouncing, declaiming, disputing, of questions in sundry faculties and arts, the use whereof may serve them afterward to purpose, young men should be made the readier and fitter to confirm the truth, to confute errors, to dehort from evil things, and instruct to good. Neither doeth your subtle matching and comparing of these scholastical exercises with interludes and plays, in as much as you tell me that if I had but said that your plays are toys, unnecessary, vain it had been no more perhaps then is, in strictness, true, because runum modò necessarium; and he, that had tried all things, of his own wise experience pronounceth, svanitas ⟨p. 125⟩vanitatum, & omnia vanitas, yea, even learning, and wisdom, and all things else, except the fear of God which endureth for ever, & you have heard a godly & a learned Preacher in the pulpit affirm, that our declamations, oppositions, suppositions, and such scholastical exercises, are no better then vain things: but these three authorities, wherein you saw not strength sufficient to persuade you that your plays are certainly unnecessary and vain, (your speech concerning them you lay in water with perhaps;) do not convince in deed our disputations, declamations, with the like exercises, to be so. For when our Saviour said that 8one thing is needful, speaking of tthe good part which Mary had chosen in that vshe heard 9his preaching, the word of God preached by him: he did not by commending the needfulness of the end, condemn the means, as needless, whereby the end is attained to. Nay, he did imply rather that the means are consequently needful: as if a natural man should say, We must live, his meaning were that we must have sustenance to live by. And how shall men xhear the word of GOD preached, unless there be Preachers to expound it? How can Preachers expound it, unless they learn the way of ycutting it aright and applying it? How can they learn the way ordinarily: unless they be trained up in Logic and Rhetoric? The necessary use whereof for the sound interpreting of Scripture, it may be that you heard zme show against the Brownists, as well as you heard the Preacher whom you speak of: or if you did not, Saint aAustin, or bHyperius, may serve to inform you. The a•tes then of Rhetoric & Logic are requisite to preaching of the word.
by writing, pronouncing, declaiming, disputing, of questions in sundry faculties and artes, the vse whereof may serue them afterward to purpose, young men should bee made the readier and fitter to confirme the truth, to confute errours, to dehort from evill things, and instruct to good. Neither doeth your suttle matching and comparing of these scholasticall exercises with enterludes and playes, in as much as you tell mee that if I had but said that your playes are toyes, vnnecessarie, vaineit had bene no more perhaps then is, in strictnes, true, because rvnum modò necessarium; and hee, that had tried all things, of his owne wise experience pronounceth, svanitas ⟨p. 125⟩vanitatum, & omnia vanitas, yea, even learning, and wisedome, and all thinges else, except the feare of God which endureth for ever, & you haue heard a godly & a learned Preacher in the pulpitt affirme, that our declamations, oppositions, suppositions, and such scholasticall exercises, are no better then vaine things: but these three autorities, wherein you saw not strength sufficient to perswade you that your playes are certainlie vnnecessarie and vaine, (your speech cōcerning them you lay in water with perhaps;) doe not convince in deede our disputations, declamations, with the like exercises, to be so. For when our Saviour said that 8one thing is needfull, speaking of tthe good part which Marie had chosen in that vshee heard 9his preaching, the word of God preached by him: he did not by commending the needfulnes of the ende, condemne the meanes, as needlesse, wherby the ende is attained to. Nay, hee did imply rather that the meanes are consequentlie needfull: as if a naturall man should say, We must liue, his meaning were that wee must haue sustenance to live by. And how shall men xheare the word of GOD preached, vnlesse there be Preachers to expound it? How can Preachers expound it, vnlesse they learne the way of ycutting it aright and applying it? How can they learne the way ordinarilie: vnlesse they be trained vp in Logike and Rhetorike? The necessarie vse whereof for the sound interpreting of Scripture, it may be that you heard
And the exercises of declaiming, answering, opposing, do help to breed ripeness in those arts. Our Saviours sentence therefore that one thing is needful, argueth not these exercises to be unnecessary. No more doth Solomon's saying that all things are vanity, prove them to be vain. For out of 1those all things him self doeth except, the cfear of God (as you note) and (as you should have noted) the keeping of Gods commandments. Wherefore sith our Students be commanded by God dto employ the pieces of money that he hath given them, in trade and traffic as it were, to make gai•e thereof; ⟨p. 126⟩and the trade, wherein they must employ their time, is, to get them selves all instruments of learning, by which they emay be able to 2exhort with wholesome doctrine; and 3convince such as gainsay it: their practise of exhortatory and convincing faculties, of declamations, of elenches, of oppositions and suppositions, can not be condemned, as vain, by his word, by whom fthe evil servant is condemned, as gunprofitable, for hhiding his talent in the earth. Well may you have heard a Preacher in the pulpit affirm that which you mention: but I doubt whether you understood him well. For you allege him so, as if he had pronounced those exercises simply, & in them selves, vain: Which it were injurious to think, that a learned and a godly Preacher (such do you report him; and I, not knowing who it was, do believe you) should purpose to affirm: seeing Christ; iwhose mouth was never defiled with toy or any vain thing, used certain of them, as oppositions namely. For what are koppositions but arguments objected against a point in question? What was it but an argument objected so by Christ, when against the lSadducees, denying the resurrection, mhe urged a text of Moses? and against the nPharisees, holding no more of Christ but that he was Davids son, a otestimony of David? Yea, in this later he did that which of all things in our disputations might seem to be most vain, object pagainst a trueth, although with purpose for the trueth. It is not to be thought then, that the Preacher, terming our exercises vain, meant that they are such simply and in them selves; but as they are used by us, by many of us, to sundry fruitless ends, not to make us fitter for the qgood and 4need full edifying of men:
And the exercises of declaiming, answering, opposing, doe helpe to breede ripenes in those artes. Our Saviours sentence therefore that one thing is needfull, argueth not these exercises to be vnnecessarie. No more doth Salamons saying that all things are vanitie, proove them to be vaine. For out of 1those all things him selfe doeth except, the cfeare of God (as you note) and (as you should haue noted) the keeping of Gods commaundements. Wherefore sith our Students be commaunded by God dto employ the pieces of moony that hee hath given them, in trade and traficke as it were, to make gai•e therof; ⟨p. 126⟩and the trade, wherein they must employ their time, is, to gett them selves all instrumentes of learning, by whiche they emay be able to 2exhort with wholesome doctrine; and 3convince such as gainsay it: their practise of exhortatorie and convincing faculties, of declamations, of elenches, of oppositions and suppositions, can not be condemned, as vaine, by his woord, by whom fthe evill servant is condemned, as gvnprofitable, for hhyding his talent in the earth. Well may you haue heard a Preacher in the pulpitt affirme that which you mention: but I doubt whether you vnderstoode him well. For you alleage him so, as if he had pronoūced those exercises simply, & in them selves, vaine: Which it were iniurious to thinke, that a learned and a godli• Preacher (such doe you report him; and I, not knowing who it was, doe beleeve you) should purpose to affirme: feing Christ; iwhose mouth was never defiled with toy or anie vaine thing, vsed certaine of them, as oppositions namely. For what are
1Heb. HACCOL with HE (an article as it were) expressed & expounded by Tremellius & Junius, Eccl. 1. 2. & 12. 10Heb. HACCOL wt HE (an article as it were) expressed & expounded by Tremellius & Iunius, Eccl. 1. 2. & 12. 10
nor to advance rgodliness profitable for all things, but to increase or make a show of sthat knowledge, which therefore is called tvanity by the wise man, because it hath vno permanent and lasting commodity, xnor bringeth us salvation and eternal life. Whereof it doeth no more follow that the exercises are vain, as you conclude; then if one should reason that the fear of God, (which you except) is vain, upon that place of Isaiah, yTheir f•are toward me is taught by the precept of men. For, if, notwithstanding that zthe Jews worshipped and feared God in vain, ⟨p. 127⟩fearing him amiss according to the precepts of men, not to his word, yet the fear of God is most beneficial, and awas to some among the Jews too: then may declamations, supposititions, oppositions, and such scholastical exercises be profitable & fruitful, even unto some among us also, though many of us make them vanity of vanities, as vain as that bstrife is which Saint Paul reproveth, I mean, both 5void of wholesome juice, & 6full of poison. But to what purpose are these discourses, will you say, of exercises fit for scholars, and Terence not to be read unto them, till they be of riper years & judgement? To let you understand, that whereas you tell us, you come upon the stage to practise your style, to acquaint your selves with Plautus, to embolden your youth, to try their voices, confirm their memories, frame their speech and action; you are so far from justifying your plays by this defence, that you condemn them more. For if the tale of Jupiter with Danaë, in Eunuchus, should not be read to such as your Melantho and Nais: much less should they be taught the same tale 7urged farther, in Ulysses •edux; and less yet another tale of cwanton Salmacis 8with her boy; in Hippolytus. If they should not as much as salute Terence, the finest Comical Poet, for pureness of the Latin tongue in dTullies judgement: much less should they be made well acquainted with Plautus; and less yet with Rivals. If they should not be suffered to peruse writings of base & filthy quality, nor to cast their eyes, as it were, upon them: much less should they engrave them by heart in their remembrance, express them with voice, commend them with action, deliver them with boldness.
nor to advance rgodlines profitable for all things, but to encrease or make a shew of sthat knowledge, which therfore is called tvanitie by the wise man, because it hath vno permanent and lasting commoditie, xnor bringeth vs salvation and eternall life. Whereof it doeth no more folow that the exercises are vaine, as you conclude; then if one should reason that the feare of God, (which you except) is vaine, vpon that place of Esay, yTheir f•are toward me is taught by the precept of men. For, if, notwithstanding that zthe Iewes worshipped and feared God in vaine, ⟨p. 127⟩fearing him amisse according to the precepts of men, not to his woord, yet the feare of God is most beneficiall, and awas to some among the Iewes too: then may declamations, supposititions, oppositions, and such schol•sticall exercises be profitable & fruitfull, even vnto some among vs also, though many of vs make them vanitie of vanities, as vaine as that bstrife is which Saint Paul reprooveth, I meane, both 5voide of wholesome iuice, & 6ful of poyson. But to what purpose are these discourses, will you say, of exercises fitt for scholers, and Terence not to be read vnto them, till they be of riper yeares & iudgement? To let you vnderstand, that whereas you tell vs, you come vpon the stage to practise your style, to acquaint your selues with Plautus, to embolden your youth, to trye their voices, confirme their memories, frame their speech and action; you are so farre from iustifying your playes by this defense, that you condemne thē more. For if the tale of Iupiter with Danaë, in Eunuchus, should not be read to such as your Melantho and Nais: much lesse should they be taught the same tale
If they should not exercise their style, their speech, their memory, but in honest, virtuous, and commendable matters, which in use of life may serve them to good purpose: much less should they meditate how they may inflame & tender youth with love; entice him to dalliance, to whoredom, to incest; inure their minds and bodies to uncomely, dissolute, railing, boasting, knavish, foolish, brainsick, drunken conceits, words, and gestures. Wherefore to the Timothees, that are among your Students, I must say in like sort as Saint Paul to Timothy: eConsider what I say; and the Lord give you ⟨p. 128⟩understanding in all things.
If they should not exercise their style, their speech, their memorie, but in honest, vertuous, and commendable matters, which in vse of lise may serve them to good purpose: much lesse should they meditate how they may inflame & tender youth with loue; entise him to daliance, to hoordom, to incest; inure their mindes and bodyes to vncoomly, dissolute, railing, boasting, knavish, foolish, brainsicke, drunken conceits, woordes, and gestures. Wherefore to the Timothees, that are among your Students, I must say in like sort as Saint Paul to Timothee: eConsider what I say; and the Lord giue you ⟨p. 128⟩vnderstanding in all things.
Now, the inconveniences and mischiefs of your plays being so notorious and manifold, as I have showed: the rest of mine answer opposed to your reasons devised for their defence, will easily deliver it self from your cavils. For where you having said that your Students did not misspend their time therein, because they spent no more time then useth to be spent in sports, sleep, talk, and learned releasing of the mind from study; and having added thereto that, sith there is a time for sports, plays, dances, and man consisting not of one part alone doeth need recreation, therefore you may be stage-players; I answered to the former, that by the like reason a student haunting a dicing house, or tavern, or stews, might prove that he did not misspend his time thereat; to the later, that recreation is necessary for Scholars, yet would it not beseem them to play at stool-ball among wenches, nor at Mumchance or Maw with idle lost companions; nor at trunks in Guile-halls, nor to dance about Maypoles, nor to rifle in alehouses, nor to carouse in Taverns, nor to steal Deere, nor to rob Orchards: you reply that to compare your plays to these things, it exceedeth the compass of any tolerable resemblance; and thereupon eftsoons you surname them hard and incomparable comparisons. Wherein how incomparably you lavish out of measure, and exceed the compass of any reasonable speech, you may quickly see, now that I have proved your plays to be evil: si•h these things being likewise evil and disorderly, and so agreeing with them in a general point, it is clear they may be resembled thereunto.
Now, the inconveniences and mischiefes of your playes being so notorious and manifold, as I haue shewed: the rest of mine answer opposed to your reasons devised for their defense, will easilie deliver it selfe from your cavills. For where you having said that your Students did not misspend their time therein, because they spent no more time then vseth to be spent in sports, sleepe, talke, and learned releasing of the minde from studie; and having added thereto that, sith there is a time for sportes, playes, danses, and man consisting not of one part alone doeth neede recreation, therefore you may be stage-players; I answered to the former, that by the like reason a student haunting a dicing house, or taverne, or stewes, might proove that he did not misspend his time thereat; to the later, that recreation is necessarie for Schollers, yet would it not beseeme them to play at stoole-ball amonge wenches, nor at Mumchance or Maw with idle lost companions; nor at trunkes in Guile-halls, nor to danse about Maypoles, nor to rifle in alehouses, nor to carowse in Tavernes, nor to steale Deere, nor to robbe Orchyards: you reply that to compare your playes to these things, it exceedeth the compasse of any tollerable resemblance; and therevpon eftsoones you surname them hard and incomparable comparisons. Wherein howe incomparably you lavish out of measure, and exceede the compasse of any reasonable speach, you may quickly see, now that I haue prooved your playes to be evill: si•h these things being likewise evill and disorderlie, and so agreeing with them in a generall point, it is cleere they may be resembled therevnto.
The Scripture compareth four Saviour to an 9usurer, who desireth gain by the money he lendeth; gthe children of light to an unjust steward, who maketh him self friends with his masters goods against a time of need, hthe coming of the Lorde• day to a thief in the night, who cometh suddenly and unlooked for. Comparisons not tolerable, if the special qualities of usurers, of unjust men, of thieves, should be meant: but very good and fit, if we mark the general points that they are matched in. Or, if Scripture-eloquence, which yet St iAustin magnifieth, seem base in your eyes; though, seem it never so ⟨p. 129⟩base, I trust you will not say that to compare our Saviour, and so forth, to these things, it exceedeth the compass of any tolerable resemblance: but the eloquence, the learning, the authority of Homer, whose wit (k you say) 1enlightened both men and Gods together, whose 2majesty you worship with 3prayer and 4thanksgiving, to 5whom you wish eternal glory, and call him 6the eternal old man, will suffice to open your eyes and stop your mouth. For he compareth lvaliant Ajax to an ass, that being in a corn-field will not be driven out with any cudgels of boys till he have filled his belly; the m Grecians and Trojans about Sarpedon's carcass, to flies about a milk-pail in a warm spring-time, all busy and loth to leave it. There are nwho find fault with these comparisons, I grant, as overbase and abject: but your adoration of Homer doeth persuade me, that you will make more of ohis censure, who, for the general drift thereof, approveth them. At least you shall be forced to yield by your own words, in as much as having compared our reproof of your expense in plays to ptheir speech who said of the costly ointment poured upon Christs head, what needed this wast? and being told the difference of that fact from yours; you say, that though you know there is an infinite difference between yours and the action against the which it was hypocritically first used: yet you think it may also be applied against, either the niggardise, or the hypocrisy of any Momus, that shall condemn all expense as cast away, that is sometimes moderately bestowed upon honest sports and pastimes. For how can it be chosen but to compare your charges on plays to those on Christ, must needs exceed the compass of any tolerable resemblance:
The Scripture compareth four Saviour to an 9vsurer, who desireth gaine by the moony hee lendeth; gthe children of light to an vniust steward, who maketh him selfe frendes with his maisters goods against a time of neede, hthe coming of the Lorde• day to a thiefe in the night, who cometh suddenly and vnlooked for. Comparisons not tollerable, if the speciall qualities of vsurers, of vniust men, of the•ves, should bee meant: but very good and fitt, if wee marke the generall points that they are matched in. Or, if Scripture-eloquence, which yet St iAustin magnifieth, seeme base in your eyes; though, seeme it never so ⟨p. 129⟩base, I trust you will not say that to compare our Saviour, and so foorth, to these things, it exceedeth the compasse of any tolerable resemblance: but the eloquence, the learning, the autoritie of Homer, whose witt (k you say) 1enlightned both men and Gods together, whose 2maiestie you worshippe with 3prayer and 4thankesgiuing, to 5whom you wish eternall glorie, and call him 6the eternall olde man, will suffice to open your eyes and stoppe your mouth. For he compareth lvaliant Aiax to an asse, that being in a corne-field will not bee driven out with any cudgels of boyes till he haue filled his belly; the m Grecians and Troians about Sarpedons carkasse, to flies about a milke-paile in a warme spring-time, all busy and loth to leaue it. There are
unless things agreeing in a general point, as you suppose (though falsely) these to do in honesty, may be very well resembled each to other? And 7why should you reprove it in me as a hard incomparable deed: when you think it comparable and soft in your own case? Chiefly, sith you know, that even in the degree of honest matters too, whereon expenses are made, there is an infinite difference between the actions, which you match: I can not say so of those that I compare. Nay, some of the things that I compare your stage-plays with, are less evil; as namely, ⟨p. 130⟩for scholars to play at stoolball among wenches: which to do by day light, in open streets, in their own likeness, were not so unmeet and inconvenient for them, as to be attired in women's raiment, by women, within doors, in the night time, to go to and fro, and come upon the stage, and play Melantho, or Nais. Contrariwise, the action wherewith you match yours; was infinitely better, as your self acknowledge: and had, as you must also acknowledge, 8less bestowed thereon, then yours had. So that your consequution doeth halt here again; It was no wast to be at lesser cost in working a good work on Christ; Ergo it is no wast to be at greater charges in setting forth of plays. But mine is unreprovable; It beseemeth not scholars to play at stoolball among wenches, though modest and chaste; Therefore it beseemeth them not to play wanton women on the stage. The same may I say of the two comparisons, which herewithall you check; the former, alleged out of Salvianus, or out of Scripture rather; the later, adjoined by me for illustrating and opening the former: to wit, that with the players of lewd and naughty parts it fareth as with a fool committing wickedness in pastime; and they are like a mad man, who casteth firebrands, arrows, and mortal things, and saith, was I not in sport? For a mad man casting firebrands, and the like, endangereth bodies only: the players of lewd parts do endanger souls. And a fool committing wickedness in pastime hath seldom many admirers and followers to hurt: the players have as many, as a great Theatre holdeth, and can hear them say, But O Cupido, or, O quàm juvaret.
vnlesse things agreeing in a generall point, as you suppose (though falsly) these to doe in honestie, may be very well resembled eche to other? And 7why should you reproove it in me as a hard incomparable deede: when you thinke it comparable and soft in your own case? Chiefly, sith you know, that even in the degree of honest matters too, whereon expenses are made, there is an infinite difference betwene the actions, which you match: I can not say so of those that I compare. Nay, some of the thinges that I compare your stage-playes with, are lesse evill; as namelie, ⟨p. 130⟩for scholers to play at stooleball among wenches: which to doe by day light, in open streetes, in their owne likenes, were not so vnmeete and inconvenient for them, as to be attired in wemens raiment, by wemen, within doores, in the night time, to goe to and fro, and come vpon the stage, and play Melantho, or Nais. Contrariwise, the action wherewith you match yours; was infinitely better, as your selfe acknowledge: and had, as you must also acknowledge, 8lesse bestowed thereon, then yours had. So that your consequution doeth halt here againe; It was no wast to bee at lesser cost in woorking a good woorke on Christ; Ergo it is no wast to bee at greater charges in setting foorth of playes. But mine is vnreprooveable; It beseemeth not scholers to play at stooleball among wenches, though modest and chast; Therefore it beseemeth them not to play wanton wemen on the stage. The same may I say of the two comparisons, which herewithall you checke; the former, alleaged out of Salvianus, or out of Scripture rather; the later, adioyned by mee for illustrating and opening the former: to weete, that with the players of lewde and naughty parts it fareth as with ae foole committing wickednes in pastime; and they are like a mad man, who casteth firebrands, arrowes, and mortall thinges, and saith, was I not in sport? For a mad man casting firebrandes, and the like, endangereth bodies onely: the players of lewde parts doe endanger sowles. And a foole commiting wickednesse in pastime hath seldome many admirers and folowers to hurt: the players haue as many, as a great Theater holdeth, and can heare them say, But O Cupido, or, O quàm juvaret.
7Quis tule• Gracchos d• sedition que rents? Juvenal. sat. […].Quis tule• Gracchos d• seditione que rentes? Iuvenal. sat. 〈…〉.
8[Greek or Hebrew], or [Greek or Hebrew], it was esteemed by them, who amplified it to the uttermost. Mark. 14. 5. Joh. 12 5. And that may amount to nine or ten pound of our money.〈non-Latin alphabet〉, or 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, it was esteemed by thē, who amplified it to the vttermost. Mark. 14. 5. Ioh. 12 5. And that may amount to nine or ten pound of our moony.
Wherefore when you amplify hereupon, and tell me, you could have wished that such comparisons had been forborne, if not for the plays them selves, though also they ought for the plays them selves, being things that savour of some wit, learning, and judgement; yet in respect of the actors, your whole house, the spectators, approvers, authors, writers; all which points you load with pathetical circumstances otherwhere entreated of: you force me to say I could have wished also that you had forborne these Galba-tricks of seeking to prejudice the trueth and equity of causes with partial affections and respect of persons, a qthing ⟨p. 131⟩condemned by Scripture; and that you had considered that if plays savouring of some wit learning, and judgement, ought not to be compared to such things as I mentioned, then your self did ill in praising and allowing that part of my discourse, wherein the fool and mad man served for comparisons. For you gave testimony thereof, that I had written copiously and truly against the bad effects of stage-plays in general. Yea, specifying the proofs that I made by sundry examples and authorities, among which the authority of Salvianus was, you soothed it as containing a truth, and well handled. But the stage-plays spoken of by Salvianus, did savour of some wit, learning, and judgement: as what play doeth nor? at least of all those that any ancient Poet wrote. Your reason therefore brought from the savour of wit learning, and judgement, to cross my comparisons; doeth cross your own allowance of that which you acknowledged to be well spoken against the bad effects of stage-plays in general. And thus, as rLycurgus the Thracian imagining that he was hewing down a vine with his hatchet, is said to have slain his son, and maimed him self: likewise you intending to show that my comparisons are hard and incomparable, and exceed the compass of any tolerable resemblance, and should have been forborne, have wounded unawares your eternal old man, and your self grievously.
Wherefore when you amplifie herevpon, and tell me, you could haue wisht that such comparisons had bene forborne, if not for the playes them selves, though also they ought for the playes them selves, being thinges that savour of some witt, learning, and iudgement; yet in respect of the actors, your whole house, the spectators, approovers, autours, writers; all which points you loade with patheticall circumstances otherwhere entreated of: you force me to say I could haue wisht also that you had forborne these Galba-trickes of seeking to preiudice the trueth and equitie of causes with partiall affections and respect of persons, a qthing ⟨p. 131⟩condemned by Scriptire; and that you had considered that if playes savouring of some witt learning, and iudgement, ought not to be compared to such things as I mentioned, then your selfe did ill in praysing and allowing that part of my discourse, wherein the foole and mad man served for comparisons. For you gaue testimonie therof, that I had written copiously and truly against the bad effects of stage-playes in generall. Yea, specifying the proofes that I made by sundry examples and autorities, among which the autoritie of Salvianus was, you soothed it as containing a truth, and well handled. But the stage-playes spoken of by Salvianus, did savour of some witt, learning, and iudgement: as what play doeth nor? at least of all those that any ancient Poët wrote. Your reason therfore brought from the savour of witt learning, and iudgement, to crosse my comparisons; doeth crosse your owne allowance of that which you acknowledged to be well spoken against the bad effects of stage-playes in generall. And thus, as rLycurgus the Thracian imagining that hee was hewing downe a vine with his hatchet, is said to have slaine his sonne, and maimed him selfe: likewise you intending to shew that my comparisons are hard and incomparable, and exceede the compasse of any tolerable resemblance, and should haue bene forborne, haue wounded vnawares your eternall olde man, and your selfe greevously.
A more grievous wound have you given your self in saying that you presumed your plays to be lawful, when you made your simple assertion (so you term it) that there is a needful time for sports. For this is in effect as much as if you said, that you played the sSophister, 9begging the point in question, and taking it as granted. The which kind of dealing, if it had any sinews to grapple with an adversary, the Jesuits might trouble us, by saying that the Catholic faith must be kept; and they presume that Popery is the Catholic faith. Likewise the meanest advocate in a court of law might speed all his clients, by saying that such as have wrong offered them, ought to be relieved; and he presumeth his clients have so. Neither had you needed to write so long a reply of twelve leaves to me: twelve words might have sufficed, that you presume my cause is naught, and ⟨p. 132⟩naughty things must not be credited. But your self acknowledge that this proveth not the lawfulness of your plays. So that, in affirming you did presume them to be lawful, and calling it a simple assertion which you avowed concerning sports, you speak more trueth then you intended. For it is a simple assertion in deed to say that sports are needful, against a mans arguments who saith that stage-plays are unlawful. And he may be justly noted of presumption, who, being unable to prove a thing he fancieth, condemneth them as Momes that are minded otherwise and bring sound proof against it.
A more greevous wound haue you giuen your selfe in saying that you presumed your playes to be lawfull, when you made your simple assertion (so you terme it) that there is a needfull time for sports. For this is in effect as much as if you saide, that you played the sSophister, 9begging the point in question, and taking it as granted. The which kinde of dealing, if it had any sinewes to graple with an adversarie, the Iesuits might trooble vs, by saying that the Catholike faith must be kept; and they presume that Poperie is the Catholike faith. Likewise the meanest advocate in a court of law might speede all his clients, by saying that such as haue wrong offered them, ought to be releeved; and hee presumeth his clients haue so. Neither had you needed to write so long a reply of twelue leaves to me: twelue wordes might haue sufficed, that you presume my cause is naught, and ⟨p. 132⟩naughty things must not be credited. But your selfe acknowledge that this prooveth not the lawfulnes of your playes. So that, in affirming you did presume them to bee lawfull, and calling it a simple assertion which you avowed concerning sports, you speake more trueth then you intended. For it is a simple assertion in deede to say that sports are needfull, against a mans arguments who saith that stage-playes are vnlawfull. And hee may be iustly noted of presumption, who, beeing vnable to proove a thing he fansieth, condemneth them as Momes that are minded otherwise and bring sound proofe against it.
sAristo. de • prehē. Soph.Aristo. de • prehē. Soph.
Howbeit, had you kept your self within the compass of such oversights, you were more excusable. But it is a greater fault to play the slanderer by falsifying mens words, and fathering upon them an erroneous sentence, which never came into their minds, nor fell out of their mouths or pens. And what do you else, when having said that I use many words against dancing, you reply that you love to see honest dancing; and, you see no cause in reason, charity, or Christian liberty, why dancing should simply be condemned. For hereby you insinuate, or pronounce rather, that I condemned dancing simply, and honest dancing: whereas my words were that dances of Penelope's wooers, of Melantho, of other of her maids, and simply all stage-dancing do savour of dishonesty. Which differeth as much from that you father on me, as the speech of Christ, tDestroy ye this temple, & in three days I will raise it up again, meaning of his body, did differ from that which vthe false witnesses affirmed him to have said of the temple of God, xthe temple made with hands. Nay, it surpasseth that of the false witnesses: it differeth as much as if, where Christ said, that yall ungodly men shall perish, they had fathered on him that all men shall perish. And your crime herein is the more blameworthy, because I had so plainly excepted certain dancing, that you can not seem to have mistaken my words, and read all dancing, for all stage-dancing; but wilfully and advisedly to have misreported me. For I said expressly, I meant those dances that I specified, and not zDavids dancing, which St aAmbrose doeth well distinguish from them. Now St Ambrose saith that Davids religious and ⟨p. 133⟩godly dancing is decent: but 1the dangerous dancing practised by players, and the 2foolish toys, the dotages, of the stage; 3are faulty even in youth too. So both mine own words, and the author I cited, do manifestly show, that when you took upon you to praise honest dancing, and said you saw no cause in charity or reason why dancing should simply be condemned, you could not but in reason and charity see cause, why you should have dealt more simply and honestly, then so calumniously to raise a false surmise of me. You know what creature it is, whom the bscripture nameth a 4calumniator.
Howbeit, had you kept your selfe within the compasse of such oversights, you were more excusable. But it is a greater fault to play the sclanderer by falsifying mens wordes, and fathering vpon them an erroneous sentence, which never came into their mindes, nor fell out of their mouths or pennes. And what doe you else, when having saide that I vse many wordes against dansing, you reply that you loue to see honest dansing; and, you see no cause in reason, charitie, or Christian libertie, why dansing should simply be condemned. For hereby you insinuate, or pronounce rather, that I condemned dansing simply, and honest dansing: whereas my wordes were that danses of Penelopes wooers, of Melantho, of other of her maides, and simply all stage-dansing do savour of dishonestie. Which differeth as much from that you father on me, as the speech of Christ, tDestroy ye this temple, & in three dayes I will raise it vp againe, meaning of his body, did differ from that which vthe false witnesses affirmed him to haue said of the temple of God, xthe temple made with handes. Nay, it surpasseth that of the false witnesses: it differeth as much as if, where Christ saide, that yall vngodly men shall perish, they had fathered on him that all men shall perish. And your crime herein is the more blamewoorthy, because I had so plainly excepted certaine dansing, that you can not seeme to haue mistaken my wordes, and reade all dansing, for all stage-dansing; but wilfully and advisedly to haue misreported mee. For I said expressely, I meant those danses that I specified, and not zDavids dansing, which St aAmbrose doeth well distinguish from them. Now St Ambrose saith that Davids religious and ⟨p. 133⟩godly dansing is decent: but 1the dangerous dansing practised by players, and the 2foolish toyes, the dotages, of the stage; 3
Beside, as you offend in charging me with that I said not: so in going about to overthrow that which I said. For whereas I affirmed that dancing of Penelope's wooers with her maids, and simply all stage-dancing, is disallowed by the light of nature; and for proof thereof did allege the testimonies, of Romans putt by Nero, of Philistines putting Samson to it, and of all ancient 1laws in a manner, yea of reason it self, as Arias Montanus noteth: you, avouching two mens opinions to the contrary, do add, that to apply, either the dancing of those noble Romans, whom Nero enforced to dance so publicly; or, Samsons dancing among the Philistines; or, the note of Arias Montanus, against your dancing only of two sober measures, is a comparison without all measure. Wherein first, through negligence of marking my words, or desire of crossing them before you understood them, you misreport my drift: and say that I applied those things against your dancing only of two sober measures, (you mean, the wooers dancing with the maids,) which I applied not against it alone, but against the rest of your stage-dancing also, that is, all your stage-playing. For this did I betoken by the name of stage-dancing, the better to express the sentence, that I had in hand, of Saint Ambrose, who by 5dancing noteth all histrionical motions and playings on the stage, in like sort as cHorace saith, 8one was requested to dance Polyphemus, meaning to play his part; and 7Plancus danced Glaucus, in dUelleius story; and g stage-players danced Oedipus, and Hercules, in eMacrobius; and fArnobius speaketh of 9dancing Europa, Leda, Ganymedes. Neither was it hard for you to perceive that I meant ⟨p. 134⟩thus much, if you had better weighed the branches of my speech, & proofs thereto answering, concluded with the note of Arias Montanus, touching not only dancers, but persons of such shows & spectacles. Chiefly if you had looked on the author him self, and marked that in the persons of such shows and spectacles, he compriseth stage-players; as the 1generality of his words, exemplified by Nero, maketh plain.
Beside, as you offend in charging me with that I said not: so in going about to overthrow that which I said. For whereas I affirmed that dansing of Penelopes wooers with her maides, and simply all stage-dansing, is disallowed by the light of nature; and for proofe thereof did alleage the testimonies, of Romans putt by Nero, of Philistines putting Samson to it, and of all ancient 1lawes in a manner, yea of reason it selfe, as Arias Montanus noteth: you, avouching two mens opinions to the contrarie, doe adde, that to apply, either the dansing of those noble Romans, whom Nero enforced to danse so publikely; or, Samsons dansing among the Philistines; or, the note of Arias Montanus, against your dansing onely of two sober measures, is a comparison without all measure. Wherein first, through negligence of marking my words, or desire of crossing them before you vnderstood them, you misreport my drift: and say that I applyed those thinges against your dansing onely of two sober measures, (you meane, the wooers dansing with the maides,) which I applyed not against it alone, but against the rest of your stage-dansing also, that is, all your stage-playing. For this did I betoken by the name of stage-dansing, the better to expresse the sentence, that I had in hand, of Saint Ambrose, who by 5dansing noteth all histrionicall motions and playings on the stage, in like sort as cHorace saith, 8one was requested to danse Polyphemus, meaning to play his part; and 7Plancus dansed Glaucus, in dUelleius storie; and g stage-players dansed Oedipus, and Hercules, in eMacrobius; and fArnobius speaketh of 9dansing Europa, Leda, Ganymedes. Neither was it hard for you to perceiue that I meant ⟨p. 134⟩thus much, if you had better weighed the branches of my speech, & proofes therto answering, concluded with the note of Arias Montanus, touching not onely dansers, but persons of such shewes & spectacles. Chiefly if you had looked on the autour him selfe, and marked that in the persons of such shewes and spectacles, he compriseth stage-players; as the
16 Pastorē saltaret uti Cyclopa, rogabat: Nil illi larva, aut tragicis opus esse cothurnis.6 Pastorē saltaret vti Cyclopa, rogabat: Nil illi larva, aut tragicis opus esse cothurnis.
5Saltationis lubricae histrionicos motus & scenae deliramenta.
9Si Europa, fi Leda, si Ganymedes fuerit saltatus, aut Dana. compescit motum irarum Jupiter?Si Europa, fi Leda, si Ganymedes fuerit saltatus, aut Dana. cōpescit motum irarum Iuppiter?
1Hujus generis actions ingenuo homine indigniffimas duxerunt, qui de virtute vera, deque corruptis hominū moribus prudenter loq•ti sunt. Ut ille de Nerone: In scena nunquā cantavit Orestes. &c. Juv. sat. 8Hujus generis actiones ingenuo homine indigniffimas duxerunt, qui de virtute vera, deque corruptis hominū moribus prudēter loq•ti sunt. Vt ille de Nerone: In scena nunquā cantavit Orestes. &c. Iuv. sat. 8
An other injury is it, that you term those proofs of mine, a comparison; and (which is more) a comparison without all measure. What hmeasure you did use in the meting out hereof, I can not guess: unless peradventure, because that you had heard that comparisons are odious, you hoped you should make all my proofs odious by naming them comparisons. For I, having noted, against your argument drawn from sports and recreations, that sports by the light of nature, are accounted unseemly, bad, infamous, and so is all stage-dancing; did allege the judgements of Romans, of Philistines, of ancient laws well nigh all, and of reason it self, as testimonies to prove that proposition by; not as comparisons, but as testimonies And therefore in the note of Arias Montanus, I did omit that he saith of 2the law of God condemning stage-plays likewise, because that might go higher then the light of nature. Otherwise, you may be sure that I, who cited him for mens laws, a thing of weaker proof, would not have omitted the law of GOD, his strongest argument. But if I had joined supernatural light to the light of nature, and had produced testimonies of the Scripture also: would you have replied, that, to allege the Scripture, is a comparison without all measure? You must by like reason. And what should stay you from it? All would have espied that it were no comparison. Why more, then the note of Arias Montanus? which yet, when you had cast my allegation of the Romans and Philistines in such a mould, that it could not appear I brought them in as testimonies; you named with them for company a comparison too. Though, seeing you are grieved with my applying of it against your stage-dancing, and that induced you to call it a comparison: me thinks you should have fastened that odious name rather on the proposition ⟨p. 135⟩proved by those testimonies. For the proofs reach not you immediately, they fight not nigh at hand: the proposition doeth; as being the major of that argument, whereof your stage-players make the minor. And the proposition, condemning all stage-dancing, doth give a deadlier wound; nether can it choose but light on your stage-dancing: the proofs might seem to be more easily avoided; or, coming so far off, to raze the skin only. Again, my applying of the proposition to you, by the assumption, would deserve more worthily the name of a comparison:
An other iniurie is it, that you terme those proofes of mine, a comparison; and (which is more) a comparison without all measure. What hmeasure you did vse in the meting out hereof, I can not guesse: vnlesse peradventure, because that you had heard that comparisons are odious, you hoped you should make all my proofes odious by naming them comparisons. For I, having noted, against your argument drawne from sports and recreations, that sports by the light of nature, are accounted vnseemelie, bad, infamous, and so is all stage-dansing; did alleage the iudgements of Romans, of Philistines, of ancient lawes well nigh all, and of reason it selfe, as testimonies to proove that proposition by; not as comparisons, but as testimonies And therefore in the note of Arias Montanus, I did omitt that he saith of 2the law of God condemning stage-playes likewise, because that might goe higher then the light of nature. Otherwise, you may be sure that I, who cited him for mens lawes, a thing of weaker proofe, would not have omitted the lawe of GOD, his strongest argument. But if I had ioyned supernaturall light to the light of nature, and had produced testimonies of the Scripture also: would you have replied, that, to alleage the Scripture, is a comparison without all measure? You must by like reason. And what should stay you from it? All would have espied that it were no comparison. Why more, then the note of Arias Montanus? which yet, when you had cast my allegation of the Romans and Philistines in such a mould, that it could not appeare I brought them in as testimonies; you named with them for company a comparison too. Though, seeing you are greeved with my applying of it against your stage-dansing, and that induced you to call it a cōparison: me thinks you should have fastned that odious name rather on the proposition ⟨p. 135⟩prooved by those testimonies. For the proofes reach not you immediatlie, they fight not nigh at hande: the proposition doeth; as being the maior of that argument, wherof your stage-players make the minor. And the proposition, condemning all stage-dansing, doth giue a deadlyer wound; nether can it choose but light on your stage-dansing: the proofes might seeme to be more easilie avoided; or, comming so farre off, to raze the skinne onely. Againe, my applying of the proposition to you, by the assumption, would deserve more woorthily the name of a comparison:
Austin reprooving the course of the world which traineth vp their children in Poëts wanton tales of Iupiters adulteries, and vseth to defend their custome by saying, Hence are wordes learned, hence is eloquence gotten:
against a trueth, although with purpose for the trueth. It is not to be thought then, that the Preacher, terming our exercises vaine, meant that they are such simply and in them selves; but as they are vsed by vs, by many of vs, to sundry fruitlesse endes, not to make vs fitter for the
Tullies iudgement: much lesse should they be made well acquainted with Plautus; and lesse yet with Rivales. If they should not be suffered to peruse writings of base & filthy qualitie, nor to cast their eyes, as it were, vpon them: much lesse should they engraue them by heart in their remembrance, expresse them with voice, commend them with action, deliver them with boldnes.
dLimone, apud Dona•ū in vita Teren•.Limone, apud Dona•ū in vita Teren•.
his censure, who, for the generall drift thereof, approoveth them. At least you shall be forced to yeeld by your owne wordes, in as much as having compared our reproofe of your expense in playes to
their speech who saide of the costly ointment powred vpon Christes head, what needed this wast? and being tolde the difference of that fact from yours; you say, that though you knowe there is an infinite difference betwene yours and the action against the which it was hypocritically first vsed: yet you thinke it may also bee applyed against, either the niggardise, or the hypocrisie of any Momus, that shall condemne all expense as cast away, that is sometimes moderatly bestowed vpon honest sports and pastimes. For how can it be chosen but to compare your charges on playes to those on Christ, must needes exceede the compasse of any tolerable resemblance:
are faultie even in youth too. So both mine owne woords, and the autour I cited, doe manifestlie shew, that whē you tooke vpō you to prayse honest dansing, and said you saw no cause in charitie or reason why dansing should simply be condemned, you could not but in reason and charitie see cause, why you should have dealt more simply and honestly, then so calumniouslie to raise a false surmise of me. You know what creature it is, whom the
