Th'overthrow of stage-plays, by the way of controversy betwixt D. Gager and D. Rainoldes…Th'overthrow of stage-playes, by the way of controversie betwixt D. Gager and D. Rainoldes…
Th'overthrow of stage-plays, by the way of controversy betwixt D. Gager and D. Rainoldes wherein all the reasons that can be made for them are notably refuted; th'objections answered, and the case so cleared and resolved, as that the judgement of any man, that is not froward and perverse, may easily be satisfied. Wherein is manifestly proved, that it is not only unlawful to be an actor, but a beholder of those vanities. Whereunto are added also and annexed in th'end certain latin letters betwixt the said Master Rainoldes, and D. Gentiles, reader of the civill law in Oxford, concerning the same matter.Th'overthrow of stage-playes, by the way of controversie betwixt D. Gager and D. Rainoldes wherein all the reasons that can be made for them are notably refuted; th'objections aunswered, and the case so cleared and resolved, as that the iudgement of any man, that is not froward and perverse, may easelie be satisfied. Wherein is manifestly proved, that it is not onely vnlawfull to bee an actor, but a beholder of those vanities. Wherevnto are added also and annexed in th'end certeine latine letters betwixt the sayed Maister Rainoldes, and D. Gentiles, reader of the civill law in Oxford, concerning the same matter.
John Rainolds 1549–1607Middelburg: printed by Richard Schilders, 1599
[8], 163, [1], 164-190, [1] p. · 74k words · STC 20616 · ESTC S115568
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Howbeit, had you kept your self within the compass of such oversights, you were more excusable. But it is a greater fault to play the slanderer by falsifying mens words, and fathering upon them an erroneous sentence, which never came into their minds, nor fell out of their mouths or pens. And what do you else, when having said that I use many words against dancing, you reply that you love to see honest dancing; and, you see no cause in reason, charity, or Christian liberty, why dancing should simply be condemned. For hereby you insinuate, or pronounce rather, that I condemned dancing simply, and honest dancing: whereas my words were that dances of Penelope's wooers, of Melantho, of other of her maids, and simply all stage-dancing do savour of dishonesty. Which differeth as much from that you father on me, as the speech of Christ, tDestroy ye this temple, & in three days I will raise it up again, meaning of his body, did differ from that which vthe false witnesses affirmed him to have said of the temple of God, xthe temple made with hands. Nay, it surpasseth that of the false witnesses: it differeth as much as if, where Christ said, that yall ungodly men shall perish, they had fathered on him that all men shall perish. And your crime herein is the more blameworthy, because I had so plainly excepted certain dancing, that you can not seem to have mistaken my words, and read all dancing, for all stage-dancing; but wilfully and advisedly to have misreported me. For I said expressly, I meant those dances that I specified, and not zDavids dancing, which St aAmbrose doeth well distinguish from them. Now St Ambrose saith that Davids religious and ⟨p. 133⟩godly dancing is decent: but 1the dangerous dancing practised by players, and the
are faulty even in youth too. So both mine own words, and the author I cited, do manifestly show, that when you took upon you to praise honest dancing, and said you saw no cause in charity or reason why dancing should simply be condemned, you could not but in reason and charity see cause, why you should have dealt more simply and honestly, then so calumniously to raise a false surmise of me. You know what creature it is, whom the
Howbeit, had you kept your selfe within the compasse of such oversights, you were more excusable. But it is a greater fault to play the sclanderer by falsifying mens wordes, and fathering vpon them an erroneous sentence, which never came into their mindes, nor fell out of their mouths or pennes. And what doe you else, when having saide that I vse many wordes against dansing, you reply that you loue to see honest dansing; and, you see no cause in reason, charitie, or Christian libertie, why dansing should simply be condemned. For hereby you insinuate, or pronounce rather, that I condemned dansing simply, and honest dansing: whereas my wordes were that danses of Penelopes wooers, of Melantho, of other of her maides, and simply all stage-dansing do savour of dishonestie. Which differeth as much from that you father on me, as the speech of Christ, tDestroy ye this temple, & in three dayes I will raise it vp againe, meaning of his body, did differ from that which vthe false witnesses affirmed him to haue said of the temple of God, xthe temple made with handes. Nay, it surpasseth that of the false witnesses: it differeth as much as if, where Christ saide, that yall vngodly men shall perish, they had fathered on him that all men shall perish. And your crime herein is the more blamewoorthy, because I had so plainly excepted certaine dansing, that you can not seeme to haue mistaken my wordes, and reade all dansing, for all stage-dansing; but wilfully and advisedly to haue misreported mee. For I said expressely, I meant those danses that I specified, and not zDavids dansing, which St aAmbrose doeth well distinguish from them. Now St Ambrose saith that Davids religious and ⟨p. 133⟩godly dansing is decent: but 1the dangerous dansing practised by players, and the 2foolish toyes, the dotages, of the stage; 3are faultie even in youth too. So both mine owne woords, and the autour I cited, doe manifestlie shew, that whē you tooke vpō you to prayse honest dansing, and said you saw no cause in charitie or reason why dansing should simply be condemned, you could not but in reason and charitie see cause, why you should have dealt more simply and honestly, then so calumniouslie to raise a false surmise of me. You know what creature it is, whom the bscripture nameth a 4calumniatour.
Beside, as you offend in charging me with that I said not: so in going about to overthrow that which I said. For whereas I affirmed that dancing of Penelope's wooers with her maids, and simply all stage-dancing, is disallowed by the light of nature; and for proof thereof did allege the testimonies, of Romans putt by Nero, of Philistines putting Samson to it, and of all ancient 1laws in a manner, yea of reason it self, as Arias Montanus noteth: you, avouching two mens opinions to the contrary, do add, that to apply, either the dancing of those noble Romans, whom Nero enforced to dance so publicly; or, Samsons dancing among the Philistines; or, the note of Arias Montanus, against your dancing only of two sober measures, is a comparison without all measure. Wherein first, through negligence of marking my words, or desire of crossing them before you understood them, you misreport my drift: and say that I applied those things against your dancing only of two sober measures, (you mean, the wooers dancing with the maids,) which I applied not against it alone, but against the rest of your stage-dancing also, that is, all your stage-playing. For this did I betoken by the name of stage-dancing, the better to express the sentence, that I had in hand, of Saint Ambrose, who by 5dancing noteth all histrionical motions and playings on the stage, in like sort as cHorace saith, 8one was requested to dance Polyphemus, meaning to play his part; and 7Plancus danced Glaucus, in dUelleius story; and g stage-players danced Oedipus, and Hercules, in eMacrobius; and fArnobius speaketh of 9dancing Europa, Leda, Ganymedes. Neither was it hard for you to perceive that I meant ⟨p. 134⟩thus much, if you had better weighed the branches of my speech, & proofs thereto answering, concluded with the note of Arias Montanus, touching not only dancers, but persons of such shows & spectacles. Chiefly if you had looked on the author him self, and marked that in the persons of such shows and spectacles, he compriseth stage-players; as the 1generality of his words, exemplified by Nero, maketh plain.
Beside, as you offend in charging me with that I said not: so in going about to overthrow that which I said. For whereas I affirmed that dansing of Penelopes wooers with her maides, and simply all stage-dansing, is disallowed by the light of nature; and for proofe thereof did alleage the testimonies, of Romans putt by Nero, of Philistines putting Samson to it, and of all ancient 1lawes in a manner, yea of reason it selfe, as Arias Montanus noteth: you, avouching two mens opinions to the contrarie, doe adde, that to apply, either the dansing of those noble Romans, whom Nero enforced to danse so publikely; or, Samsons dansing among the Philistines; or, the note of Arias Montanus, against your dansing onely of two sober measures, is a comparison without all measure. Wherein first, through negligence of marking my words, or desire of crossing them before you vnderstood them, you misreport my drift: and say that I applyed those thinges against your dansing onely of two sober measures, (you meane, the wooers dansing with the maides,) which I applyed not against it alone, but against the rest of your stage-dansing also, that is, all your stage-playing. For this did I betoken by the name of stage-dansing, the better to expresse the sentence, that I had in hand, of Saint Ambrose, who by 5dansing noteth all histrionicall motions and playings on the stage, in like sort as cHorace saith, 8one was requested to danse Polyphemus, meaning to play his part; and 7Plancus dansed Glaucus, in dUelleius storie; and g stage-players dansed Oedipus, and Hercules, in eMacrobius; and fArnobius speaketh of 9dansing Europa, Leda, Ganymedes. Neither was it hard for you to perceiue that I meant ⟨p. 134⟩thus much, if you had better weighed the branches of my speech, & proofes therto answering, concluded with the note of Arias Montanus, touching not onely dansers, but persons of such shewes & spectacles. Chiefly if you had looked on the autour him selfe, and marked that in the persons of such shewes and spectacles, he compriseth stage-players; as the
16 Pastorē saltaret uti Cyclopa, rogabat: Nil illi larva, aut tragicis opus esse cothurnis.6 Pastorē saltaret vti Cyclopa, rogabat: Nil illi larva, aut tragicis opus esse cothurnis.
5Saltationis lubricae histrionicos motus & scenae deliramenta.
9Si Europa, fi Leda, si Ganymedes fuerit saltatus, aut Dana. compescit motum irarum Jupiter?Si Europa, fi Leda, si Ganymedes fuerit saltatus, aut Dana. cōpescit motum irarum Iuppiter?
1Hujus generis actions ingenuo homine indigniffimas duxerunt, qui de virtute vera, deque corruptis hominū moribus prudenter loq•ti sunt. Ut ille de Nerone: In scena nunquā cantavit Orestes. &c. Juv. sat. 8Hujus generis actiones ingenuo homine indigniffimas duxerunt, qui de virtute vera, deque corruptis hominū moribus prudēter loq•ti sunt. Vt ille de Nerone: In scena nunquā cantavit Orestes. &c. Iuv. sat. 8
An other injury is it, that you term those proofs of mine, a comparison; and (which is more) a comparison without all measure. What hmeasure you did use in the meting out hereof, I can not guess: unless peradventure, because that you had heard that comparisons are odious, you hoped you should make all my proofs odious by naming them comparisons. For I, having noted, against your argument drawn from sports and recreations, that sports by the light of nature, are accounted unseemly, bad, infamous, and so is all stage-dancing; did allege the judgements of Romans, of Philistines, of ancient laws well nigh all, and of reason it self, as testimonies to prove that proposition by; not as comparisons, but as testimonies And therefore in the note of Arias Montanus, I did omit that he saith of 2the law of God condemning stage-plays likewise, because that might go higher then the light of nature. Otherwise, you may be sure that I, who cited him for mens laws, a thing of weaker proof, would not have omitted the law of GOD, his strongest argument. But if I had joined supernatural light to the light of nature, and had produced testimonies of the Scripture also: would you have replied, that, to allege the Scripture, is a comparison without all measure? You must by like reason. And what should stay you from it? All would have espied that it were no comparison. Why more, then the note of Arias Montanus? which yet, when you had cast my allegation of the Romans and Philistines in such a mould, that it could not appear I brought them in as testimonies; you named with them for company a comparison too. Though, seeing you are grieved with my applying of it against your stage-dancing, and that induced you to call it a comparison: me thinks you should have fastened that odious name rather on the proposition ⟨p. 135⟩proved by those testimonies. For the proofs reach not you immediately, they fight not nigh at hand: the proposition doeth; as being the major of that argument, whereof your stage-players make the minor. And the proposition, condemning all stage-dancing, doth give a deadlier wound; nether can it choose but light on your stage-dancing: the proofs might seem to be more easily avoided; or, coming so far off, to raze the skin only. Again, my applying of the proposition to you, by the assumption, would deserve more worthily the name of a comparison:
An other iniurie is it, that you terme those proofes of mine, a comparison; and (which is more) a comparison without all measure. What hmeasure you did vse in the meting out hereof, I can not guesse: vnlesse peradventure, because that you had heard that comparisons are odious, you hoped you should make all my proofes odious by naming them comparisons. For I, having noted, against your argument drawne from sports and recreations, that sports by the light of nature, are accounted vnseemelie, bad, infamous, and so is all stage-dansing; did alleage the iudgements of Romans, of Philistines, of ancient lawes well nigh all, and of reason it selfe, as testimonies to proove that proposition by; not as comparisons, but as testimonies And therefore in the note of Arias Montanus, I did omitt that he saith of 2the law of God condemning stage-playes likewise, because that might goe higher then the light of nature. Otherwise, you may be sure that I, who cited him for mens lawes, a thing of weaker proofe, would not have omitted the lawe of GOD, his strongest argument. But if I had ioyned supernaturall light to the light of nature, and had produced testimonies of the Scripture also: would you have replied, that, to alleage the Scripture, is a comparison without all measure? You must by like reason. And what should stay you from it? All would have espied that it were no comparison. Why more, then the note of Arias Montanus? which yet, when you had cast my allegation of the Romans and Philistines in such a mould, that it could not appeare I brought them in as testimonies; you named with them for company a comparison too. Though, seeing you are greeved with my applying of it against your stage-dansing, and that induced you to call it a cōparison: me thinks you should have fastned that odious name rather on the proposition ⟨p. 135⟩prooved by those testimonies. For the proofes reach not you immediatlie, they fight not nigh at hande: the proposition doeth; as being the maior of that argument, wherof your stage-players make the minor. And the proposition, condemning all stage-dansing, doth giue a deadlyer wound; nether can it choose but light on your stage-dansing: the proofes might seeme to be more easilie avoided; or, comming so farre off, to raze the skinne onely. Againe, my applying of the proposition to you, by the assumption, would deserve more woorthily the name of a comparison:
and the assumption being particular, or singular; the proposition universal; were not this applying of all against some, a comparison without all measure?
and the assumption being particular, or singular; the proposition vniversall; were not this applying of all against some, a comparison without all measure?
The third injurious part offered me in this point, is, that you allege the judgement of Homer and Sir Thomas Eliot, as making for that dancing, which I did reprove. And bringing in the former of them by a 3figure, saying, To omit Homers judgment thereof; him self you call an excellent observer of decorum in all things, and quote for his judgement ithe eight book of his Odyssea. Now, better had it ben••or you to omit him without a figure in deed: sith he, describing there the life of King Alcinous, and of his people, the Phaeacians, sayeth, that 4they took pleasure continually in feasting, and music, and dancing, and bravery of apparel, and hot baths, and chambering: wherein a lively pattern of a wanton, riotous, voluptuous, Epicures life, being set forth by Homer, as kHorace, lAthenaeus, mEustathius may teach you: if I should not have blamed dancing in your plays, because such an excellent observer of decorum saith the Phoeacians used it; then must the nbelly be your players God, because such an excellent observer of decorum saith the Phoeacians served it. Moreover seeing that the Music which the minstrel gave them to their dancing, was a 5song of Mars taken in adultery with Venus Vulcans wife; & you commend in dancing the number of the footing well expressing, answering, and as it were acting the measure and meaning of the Music: you see what good instructions you give men by extolling your excellent observer of decorum in all things. Add thereunto that he, so good an observer of decorum, maketh the ⟨p. 136⟩Phoeacian actors dance with 6others of their own sex, or 7single. Which how much, & why, it is more allowable, then men and women to dance together: I wish you to consider, by weighing, with examples mentioned in oScripture, the judgement of pDivines thereon. So shall you perceive, that Homer in the eight book of his Odyssea, hath no sufficient warrant for Melantho to dance together with Eurymachus, the maids with the wooers; no not though they were maids and Melantho in deed; much less for boys attired like Melantho, & maids, to dance with men upon a stage. The later of your authors you allege directly; and, that learned Knight Sir Thomas Eliot, say you, among other things that he writeth in a book of his, in the praise of dancing, compareth the man treading the measures, to Fortitude, and the woman on his hand, to Temperance.
The third iniurious part offered me in this point, is, that you alleage the iudgement of Homer and Syr Thomas Eliot, as making for that dansing, which I did reproove. And bringing in the former of them by a 3figure, saying, To omit Homers iudgment thereof; him self you call an excellent observer of decorum in all things, and quote for his iudgement ithe eight booke of his Odyssea. Now, better had it ben••or you to omit him without a figure in deede: sith he, describing there the life of King Alcinous, and of his people, the Phaeacians, saieth, that 4they tooke pleasure continually in feasting, and musicke, and daunsing, and braverie of apparell, and hott baths, and chambering: wherein a livelie paterne of a wanton, riotous, voluptuous, Epicures life, being sett foorth by Homer, as kHorace, lAthenaeus, mEustathius may teach you: if I should not haue blamed dansing in your playes, because such an excellent observer of decorum saith the Phoeacians vsed it; then must the nbelly bee your players God, because such an excellent observer of decorū saith the Phoeacians served it. Moreover seeing that the Musicke which the minstrell gave thē to their dansing, was a 5song of Mars taken in adulterie with Venus Vulcans wife; & you commend in dansing the number of the footing wel expressing, answering, and as it were acting the measure and meaning of the Musike: you see what good instructions you give men by extolling your excellent observer of decorum in all things. Adde therevnto that he, so good an observer of decorum, maketh the ⟨p. 136⟩Phoeacian actors danse with 6others of their owne sexe, or 7
3Praeteritio.
iOdyss. […].Odyss. 〈…〉.
4[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
kEpist. lib. 1. ep. 2. Alcinoique In cute curanda plus aequo operata juventus.Epist. lib. 1. ep. 2. Alcinoique In cute curanda plus aequo operata iuventus.
You add, that you have seen the book, and you remember he useth this comparison in it. But did you not remember the name of the book too? or was it for some special cause that you concealed it? your words might give a man occasion to think, that he had written a book in the praise of dancing: which that he did, I qfind not. I guess you mean therefore his book entitled the Governor. Wherein rhe praiseth Dancing, and uttereth somewhat like to that avouched by you, and streateth of circumstances (a point you touch also) which being all observed, dancing may be honestly and honourably used: But his speech of Fortitude and Temperance represented by men and maidens in a dance, cometh nothing near your maids and wooers measures, whereto you would stretch it. For, among diverse manners and kinds of dancing used in ancient time, he rehearseth one, wherein (as tLucian saith, translated word for word by him in a manner) 8danced young men and maidens; the man going before, and expressing 9such motions as he might afterward use in war; the maiden following him modestly and shamefastlie; so that it represented a pleasant conjunction of temperance & fortitude. Now those warlike motions were (as vPlato showeth, speaking of the like dance) gestures which resembled, partly the avoiding all sorts of wounds and blows by 1bending aside, by 2going back, by 3leaping up, by 4bowing down; partly ⟨p. 137⟩the enforcing of enemies by shooting 5arrows, and casting 6darts at them, and giving them 7all sorts of wounds. Wherefore this being it, that represented Fortitude in the dance described by Sir Thomas Eliot: far was it from his meaning to make your measures, your sober measures, warlike motions; or compare a wooer treading them, to Fortitude. As far, as to compare a boy doing the same in maidens likeness, to Temperance. Which, if you had otherwise expressed his sense rightly, yet should you have forborne to apply to yours for the observing of decorum, a thing that you commend so in Homer, and your self aim at: sith those maids and wooers, intended both by Homer and you, to be wantons, must use lascivious dances; and the man (if you will needs have such resemblances) be compared rather to Mollitude, or Cowardnes, the woman to Incontinence. Beside that, the praise which that learned Knight giveth unto dancing, he giveth it not simply;
You adde, that you have seene the booke, and you remember hee vseth this comparison in it. But did you not remember the name of the booke too? or was it for some speciall cause that you concealed it? your woordes might giue a man occasion to thinke, that he had written a booke in the praise of dansing: which that he did, I qfinde not. I guesse you meane therefore his booke entituled the Governour. Wherein rhe prayseth Dansing, and vttereth somewhat like to that avouched by you, and streateth of circumstances (a point you touch also) which being all observed, dansing may be honestlie and honorably vsed: But his speech of Fortitude and Temperance represented by men and maidens in a danse, commeth nothing neere your maides and wooers measures, whereto you would stretch it. For, among diverse maners and kindes of dansing vsed in ancient time, he rehearseth one, wherein (as tLucian saith, translated woord for woorde by him in a maner) 8dansed young men and maidens; the man going before, and expressing 9such motions as he might afterward vse in warre; the maiden following him modestly and shamefastlie; so that it represented a pleasant coniunction of temperance & fortitude. Now those warlike motions were (as vPlato sheweth, speaking of the like danse) gestures which resembled, partlie the avoiding all sortes of woundes and blowes by 1bending aside, by 2going backe, by 3leaping vp, by 4bowing downe; partlie ⟨p. 137⟩the enforcing of enimies by shooting 5
(for he saith xsome dances, do corrupt the minds of them that dance, and provoke sin:) but with limitation, to wit, ybeing used and continued in such form, and with such observations and rules, as he specifieth. Whereof the first (to name one for example) is, that, by the courtesy or reverent inclination made at beginning of dancing, the dancers and beholders should mark and remember this to be signified, that at the beginning of all our acts, we should do due honour to God, which is the root of prudence. And in deed if dancers in treading of their measures had such regards and meditations: then not Sir Thomas Eliot only, but the Fathers would praise dancing too. For, when godly Bishops assembled in the Councils of zLaodicea, and aIlarda, decreed that Christians ought not to dance at marriages; when St bChrysostom blamed women for so doing, as being a stain unto their sex; when St cAmbrose cited and averred that of dTully, that such as dance are drunk, or mad; when St eAustin said that it were better to spend the Sabbath day in digging & delving, then in dancing: they meant not to restrain men from marking, and remembering, that at the beginning of all their acts, they should do due honour to God; but they thought that dancers have commonly their minds on things of an other ⟨p. 138⟩quality. Which if your wooers and maidens also had; as (I am persuaded) them selves will not deny, and you seem to have thought by touching so nicely, or rather scarcely touching, the circumstances that you say should be observed in dancing: you abuse the name of that learned Knight, in urging his praise of a good dance that might be, against my dispraise of an ill dance that is. It had been more reason, that when his conceit carried him a little out of the way sometimes, as in that fhe praiseth Lucians stage-dancer, who danced the adultery of Mars and Venus with resembling of 8every act therein, (which I hope, your self would not allow on your stage;) you should have acknowledged that through too great a love of dancing, he liked too well of Lucians treatise: though otherwise he fancied not the author much; as ghe well declareth by noting of *his ribaldry, and his too much scorning; and by saying farther, It were better that a child should never read any part of Lucian, then all Lucian. Or, if the sentence of a Knight, so worthy, had such credit with you;
(for he saith xsome danses, doe corrupt the mindes of them that danse, and provoke sinne:) but with limitation, to weete, ybeing vsed and continued in such forme, and with such observations and rules, as hee specifieth. Whereof the first (to name one for example) is, that, by the curtesie or reverent inclination made at beginning of dansing, the dansers and beholders should marke and remember this to be signified, that at the beginning of all our actes, we should doe due honour to God, which is the roote of prudence. And in deede if dansers in treading of their measures had such regards and meditations: then not Syr Thomas Eliot onely, but the Fathers would praise dansing too. For, when godly Bishops assembled in the Councells of zLaodicea, and aIlarda, decreed that Christians ought not to danse at mariages; when St bChrysostome blamed women for so doeing, as being a staine vnto their sexe; when St cAmbrose cited and averred that of dTullie, that such as danse are drunke, or madde; when St eAustin said that it were better to spend the Sabbat day in digging & delving, then in dansing: they meant not to restraine men from marking, and remembring, that at the beginning of all their actes, they should doe due honour to God; but they thought that dansers haue commonlie their mindes on thinges of an other ⟨p. 138⟩qualitie. Which if your wooers and maidens also had; as (I am perswaded) them selves will not deny, and you seeme to have thought by touching so nicely, or rather scarcelie touching, the circumstāces that you say should be observed in dansing: you abuse the name of that learned Knight, in vrging his prayse of a good danse that might bee, against my disprayse of an ill danse that is. It had bene more reason, that when his conceit caried him a litle out of the way sometimes, as in that f
why did you not consider hhis religious wish, that the names of idols, of Paynim Gods and Goddesses, were not used at this day in ballads and ditties, to the corrupting of many good wits with godless fantasies? For though his reproof do specially touch the most vile idols, Venus, and Bacchus, remembered so in dancing-songs as if the dance were to their honour and memory; a matter most abhorring from Christs religion, and savouring of the ancient error of Paganism: yet as the iScripture, the ground of his reproof, doeth generally condemn such naming of other Gods, semblably he showeth, that, if you had attributed so much to his judgement, you should have eschewed that fault in your tragedy. At least, where the words are uttered as it were in your own person: as kthose of 9the Gods enlightened or beautified by Homers fables are. Perhaps, where players of other mens persons also speak: as lUlysses, and mEumaeus, adoring spirits of 1Devils, or of dead 2men, and 3women, with sacrifices and prayers; nTelemachus 4swearing by Jupiter; oPhilaetius, first 5blaspheming GOD under Jupiter's name, then 6confessing to him that there are Gods in heaven. Chiefly seeing that these speeches are delivered ⟨p. 139⟩by the flower of those persons, by whose parts (you say) no hurt could come to any man: and Sir Thomas Eliot thought that such speeches, savouring of Paganism, might corrupt good wits. But howsoever you shall distinguish your Poem from the ballads and ditties, in which he controlleth this irreligious custom of giving the honour of God to vile idols: your self do bear witness that he commendeth not the dancing of Eurymachus & the rest of your wooers with their Melanthos on the stage. For among the parts of their dissolute behaviour imagined to be done within, you rehearse their 7dancing: and that in the person, not of a carping Momus, but of wise pTelemachus. Now look what was imagined to be done within, the same was expressed on the stage in part, by your own confession: as Telemachus also saith, that in 8their manners at home they kept their wont, Their dancing on the stage then, your self acknowledge, was unhonest dancing. And the dancing praised by Sir Thomas Eliot is honest dancing, you say. Therefore you do manifest wrong unto us both, in alleging him as praising that which I dispraised.
why did you not consider hhis religious wish, that the names of idoles, of Paynim Gods and Goddesses, were not vsed at this day in balades and dities, to the corrupting of many good wittes with godlesse fantasies? For though his reproofe doe specially touch the most vile idoles, Venus, and Bacchus, remembred so in dansing-songs as if the danse were to their honour and memorie; a matter most abhorring from Christes religion, and savouring of the ancient errour of Paganisme: yet as the iScripture, the ground of his reproofe, doeth generallie condemne such naming of other Gods, semblably he sheweth, that, if you had attributed so much to his iudgement, you should haue eschewed that fault in your tragedie. At least, wher the woords are vttered as it were in your owne person: as kthose of 9the Gods enlightned or beautificd by Homers fables are. Perhaps, where players of other mens persons also speake: as lUlysses, and mEumaeus, adoring spirits of 1Devills, or of dead 2men, and 3women, with sacrifices and prayers; nTelemachus 4swearing by Iuppiter; oPhilaetius, first 5blaspheming GOD vnder Iuppiters name, then 6confessing to him that there are Gods in heaven. Chieflie seeing that these speeches are delivered ⟨p. 139⟩
qWhen the Lacedaemonians had accused the Thebans of many and grievous matters: In deed, quoth Epaminondas, 9these have made you give over your short form of speaking. I wish I might be short, as were the Lacedaemonians; but you constrain me to be long: you deal so Theban-like continually with me. A doubtful word being used in a question of yours, 1whether we account it a loss recitare, to recite Seneca; Whereunto I answered that it is one thing 2to recite, another thing 3to play, as I declared by sundry writers; and added that I would have been content to hear your tragedy recited; had it been recited or pronounced only; you reply that the word is used in Quintilian; not onely de scripto, but also memoriter recitare; and therefore you might use it indifferently, for agere, in a general acceptation; moreover, that as Horace and Persius do scoff bitterly at recitatores also, and the law in the generality of the term noteth also with imfamie, them, qui pronuntiandi, that is properly, recitandi causa in scenam prodeunt: so the University would have thought it a more absurd thing to have heard you, or any other, ⟨p. 140⟩openly reading your Ulysses to them, then to have seen it acted as it was. Wherein to the intent you may see how you play the Theban, I will use a comparison, and that within some measure I trust. rPlutarch hath written a dialogue to prove that brute beasts have reason as well as men have: in jest peradventure, seeing he maketh it to be avouched by 4Gryllus: or meaning, that they have a natural sagacity and understanding like to reason, not reason capable of Religion, as in the 5conclusion he seemeth to insinuate, and a scertain Christian writer hath maintained, though speaking not so fitly in saying they have reason, sith the tScripture termeth them 6Creatures void of reason. But suppose that some man being of Gryllus mind, (or let us call him Gryllus for more perspicuity, and make Sempronius likewise his adversaries name;) suppose then that Gryllus having asked this question, 7Do you think that animal, a living creature endued with sense, wanteth reason? Sempronius answered him, that animal is one thing, and a beast an other, as vTully declareth, affirming a 8man (whom he calleth animal) to be full of reason, whereof he saith, that 9no beast at all is partaker.
qWhen the Lacedaemonians had accused the Thebans of manie and greevous matters: In deed, quoth Epaminondas, 9these have made you give over your short forme of speaking. I wishe I might be short, as were the Lacedaemonians; but you constraine me to be long: you deale so Theban-like continually with me. A doubtfull woord being vsed in a question of yours, 1whether we account it a losse recitare, to recite Seneca; Wherevnto I answered that it is one thing 2to recite, another thing 3to play, as I declared by sundrie writers; and added that I would have bene content to heare your tragedie recited; had it bene recited or pronounced onely; you reply that the woord is vsed in Quintilian; not onely de scripto, but also memoriter recitare; and therefore you might vse it indifferentlie, for agere, in a generall acceptatiō; moreover, that as Horace and Persius doe scoffe bitterly at recitatores also, and the law in the generalitie of the terme noteth also with imfamie, them, qui pronuntiandi, that is properly, recitandi causa in scenam prodeunt: so the Universitie would have thought it a more absurd thing to have heard you, or any other, ⟨p. 140⟩openly reading your Vlysses to them, then to have seene it acted as it was. Wherein to the intent you may see how you play the Theban, I will vse a comparison, and that within some measure I trust. rPlutarch hath written a dialogue to proove that brute beastes haue reason as well as men haue: in iest peradvēture, seeing he maketh it to be avouched by 4Gryllus: or meaning, that they haue a naturall sagacitie and vnderstanding like to reason, not reason capable of Religion, as in the 5conclusion he seemeth to insinuate, and a scertaine Christian writer hath mainteined, though speaking not so fitlie in saying they have reason, sith the t
qPlutarch. apophthe. reg. & imperat.
9[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
1Senecamne tu recitare jacturam putes?
2Recitare.
3Agere.
r[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
4[Greek or Hebrew] a pig, or hog.〈non-Latin alphabet〉 a pigge, or hogge.
If Gryllus should reply that the word is used in xOvid for 1all things that have life and sense, not for men only, and therefore he might use it indifferently for beasts in a general acceptation: would not they, who see, that belike he meant to comprehend men also under that general word, thereby the more closely to fetch in beasts with them; and that, restraining it to beasts, his question must be, Think you that beasts want reason? which were an idle question, and openly implying a begging of the point in controversy; would they not, I say, condemn him as a wrangling and contentious Sophister? Now, if in the same vain, or rather in a worse, he should add moreover, that as yHorace and zPersius speak scoffingly of mad men too, and the alaw appointeth gar••s for idiots, that is properly, for men wanting the use of re•; so the grave Athenian bench of Areopagus would judge it more absurd to say that men have reason, then that beasts have it, chiefly certain beasts, as 2horses and ⟨p. 141⟩oxen dancing upon stages in a more exquisite manner then men are lightly able: would not this speech of Gryllus show that he deserveth a sharper commendation, then Plutarch by praising 3his sophistry meant unto him? Here your usual dealing causeth me to fear that you will ask whether I make you a Gryllus. As bwhen a Catholic Bishop, being rebuked by an Arian Emperor for standing alone with Athanasius against the whole world, said that the doctrine of faith was not impeached though he alone maintained it, seeing that of old time cthree alone were found who stood against the Kings commandment: What? quoth an Eunuch, 4doest thou make our Emperor a Nebuchadnezzar? But, I pray you, leave this Eunuchs odious practise in racking my comparisons: and mark the main point whereat I aim in them, and which I seek to open by them. For, as in Gryllus question, and verse, framed like yours, the circumstances give, that he used the general word comprising man, thereby to breed a fancy that if this kind of animal have reason, why not the other? In like sort your express mention of 5reading, I say, of reading, not of playing, in showing what a jewel you take the reciting of Seneca to be; maketh it probable that you meant to do by the generality of the word recitare.
If Gryllus should reply that the woord is vsed in xOvid for 1all things that have life and sense, not for men onely, and therfore he might vse it indifferently for beasts in a general acceptatiō: would not they, who see, that belike he meant to comprehend men also vnder that generall woord, thereby the more closely to fetch in beastes with them; and that, restraining it to beasts, his question must bee, Thinke you that beastes want reason? which were an idle question, and openly implying a begging of the point in controversie; would they not, I say, condemne him as a wrangling and contentious Sophister? Now, if in the same vaine, or rather in a woorse, he should adde moreover, that as yHorace and zPersius speake scoffingly of mad men too, and the alaw appointeth gar••s for idiots, that is properly, for men wanting the vse of re•; so the grave Athenian bench of Areopagus would iudge it more absurd to say that men haue reason, then that beasts haue it, chieflie certaine beastes, as 2horses and ⟨p. 141⟩oxen dansing vpon stages in a more exquisit maner then men are lightlie able: would not this speech of Gryllus shew that he deserveth a sharper commendation, then Plutarch by praysing 3his sophistrie meant vnto him? Here your vsuall dealing causeth mee to feare that you will aske whether I make you a Gryllus. As bwhen a Catholike Bishop, being rebuked by an Arian Emperour for standing alone with Athanasius against the whole worlde, said that the doctrine of faith was not impeached though he alone mainteined it, seeing that of olde time cthree alone were found who stoode against the Kings commandement: What? quoth an Eunuche,
xMetamor. lib. 1.
1Pronaque cùm spectent animalia caetera terram, os homini sublime dedit.
yEpist lib. 1. epi. 1.
zSatyr. 3.
aL. 2. D. de postulando. l. 2. D. de curatorib. suriosor.
2[Greek or Hebrew], saith Gryll• in Plutarch.〈non-Latin alphabet〉, saith Gryll• in Plutarch.
5Cuius vel unum simile carminibus me• Benigna carmen malo posteritas legate: legate, you say, not agat; though agat would have fitted the verse as well as legate.Cuius vel vnum simile carminibus me• Benigna carmen malo posteritas legat: legat, you say, not agat; though agat would haue fitted the verse as well as legat.
The more, because you used it not only in your verse, where your excuse might serve, that it stood better then agere would in that place; as Gryllus might say likewise for versifying animal rather, then bestiam: but in your prose also, the 6title of your tragedy; as if Gryllus, setting down the point controversed between him and Sempronius, should make it, utrum animal sit rationis expers; where the word 7bestia, would serve as fitly in prose; nay, (if plain dealing were meant) a great deal more fitly. And if you intended not to make that reason which I supposed you did, it is no loss to recite Seneca, Ergo no loss to play him: but meant to use the general word for the special, and to ask Momus only, Think you it a loss to play Seneca? then you begged at Momus hand, or took as granted, the point you should have proved; sith the playing of Seneca was condemned by him, and you undertook to confute his arguments. Again, as Horace, Persius, the law, alleged ⟨p. 142⟩by Gryllus, do show that certain men want the use of reason, but neither prove that beasts have it, nor that mankind wanteth it; and his presumed testimony of the Areopagus, brought in with a particle of similitude, So, as hitting jump with Horace, Persius, and the law, is too too absurd: in like sort the same authors, alleged by your self, do show that some reciters are misliked by them, but neither prove that players are liked, nor all reciters misliked; and the Universities testimony which you bring in with the same particle, as hitting jump with those authors, I can not say you bring it altogether as Gryllus, but you bring it strangely. For dHorace scoffeth at them, who 8recite their writings out of due place or time, and are 9importunately displeasant: ePersius, at 1wantons reciting 2wanton verses, with an 3effeminate voice, and a 4vainglorious mind. The law noteth with infamy such as come upon the stage to recite: belike, for their vain-glorious desire of 5being seen, and 6getting mens applause, which Persius jesteth at. Now in that you add hereto the University, and make us join with the former in opinion, saying; So the University would have thought it a more absurd thing, to have heard me, or any other, openly reading my Ulysses to them, then to have seen it acted, as it was: what mean you by this term, So?
The more, because you vsed it not onely in your verse, where your excuse might serve, that it stoode better then agere would in that place; as Gryllus might say likewise for versifying animal rather, then bestiam: but in your prose also, the 6title of your tragedie; as if Gryllus, setting downe the point controversed betweene him and Sempronius, should make it, vtrum animal sit rationis expers; where the woorde 7bestia, would serve as fitlie in prose; nay, (if plaine dealing were meant) a great deale more fitlie. And if you intended not to make that reason which I supposed you did, it is no losse to recite Seneca, Ergo no losse to play him: but meant to vse the generall woorde for the speciall, and to aske Momus onely, Thinke you it a losse to play Seneca? thē you begged at Momus hand, or tooke as graunted, the point you should haue prooved; sith the playing of Seneca was condemned by him, and you vndertooke to confute his arguments. Againe, as Horace, Persius, the law, alleaged ⟨p. 142⟩by Gryllus, doe shew that certaine men want the vse of reason, but neither proove that beasts haue it, nor that mankind wanteth it; and his presumed testimonie of the Areopagus, brought in with a particle of similitude, So, as hitting iumpe with Horace, Persius, and the law, is too too absurd: in like sort the same autours, alleaged by your selfe, doe shew that some reciters are misliked by them, but neither prove that players are liked, nor all reciters misliked; and the Vniversities testimonie which you bring in with the same particle, as hitting iumpe with those autours, I can not say you bring it altogether as Gryllus, but you bring it strangely. For dHorace scoffeth at them, who 8recite their writings out of due place or time, and are 9importunatlie displeasant: ePersius, at 1wantons reciting 2wanton verses, with an 3
6Tragoedia nova, in aede Christi recitata.Tragoedia noua, in aede Christi recitata.
7In the larger sense, that Tully giveth it: Tusc quae. lib. 5. De nat. Deor. lib. 2. not in the stricter of your Lawyers: l. 1. § removet. D de postulando. l. 1. §. in bestiis. D. si quadrup. pauper. sec. di.In the larger sense, that Tullie geueth it: Tusc quae. lib. 5. De nat. Deor. lib. 2. not in the stricter of your Lawiers: l. 1. § removet. D de postulando. l. 1. §. in bestiis. D. si quadrup. pauper. sec. di.
dSatyr. lib. […]. sat. 4. &. De art. poët.Satyr. lib. 〈…〉. sat. 4. &. De art. poët.
8In medio qui Scripta foro recitent, sunt multi, quique lavantes.
9Indoctum doctumque fugat recitator acerbus.
eSatyr. 1.
1Patranti fractus ocello.
2Quum carnima lúbum Intrant, & tremulo scalpuntur ubi in•ma versu.
4Quo didicisse, nisi hoc fermentum, & qua semel intus innata est, rupto jecore exierit caprificus? & usque adeò ne Scire •uú nihil est, nisi te scire hoc sciat alter?Quo didicisse, nisi hoc fermentum, & qua semel intus innata est, rupto jecore exierit caprificus? & vsque adeò ne Scire •uú nihil est, nisi te scire hoc sciat alter?
5Populo, pexusque, togaque recenti, & natalitia tandem cum sardonyche albus, Seed legens celsa.Populo, pexusque, togaque recenti, & natalitia tandem cum sardonyche albus, Sede legens celsa.
That if you, or an other, had read your Ulysses openly unto them, it had been done out of due place, or due time? or, they should have heard wanton verses read? or wantonly? or by a wanton? or with a vain-glorious mind? or on the stage? In deed, they should have heard 7some wanton verses, I grant: and both out of due place, and time, if you had read it 8where, & 9when it was acted. Neither do I doubt but the University would have thought such open reading, of such stuff, on such a day, absurd: though, whether more absurd, then to have seen it acted as it was, I know not. But whatsoever they would have thought in this comparison, wherein the flaw, that you cite, noting both with infamy, should give (me thinks) a deeper print thereof to acting then reading, all things weighed: you are far ⟨p. 143⟩from hitting the mark, whereat you shoot; namely, from convincing by the Universities testimony, and judgement, my sentence as absurd, that if your tragedy had been recited only, I would have accounted it no more loss of time to have heard you pronounce it, then my self to read it. For, I did not mean, if it had been recited as those were, which the authors by you alleged, do reprove: but as gHorace used to 1recite his own writings; as 2poems were recited to Quintilius Varus; as hPersius did recite his book unto Cornutus, before he published it. Whereof if you pronounce (as you do, if you speak to purpose) that our University would have thought it a more absurd thing, then to have seen it acted as it was: you deal in like manner with our University, as Gryllus with the reverend bench of Areopagus, if he should abuse their name and estimation, to persuade that brute beasts have more reason, then the wisest men have.
That if you, or an other, had read your Vlysses openly vnto them, it had bene done out of due place, or due time? or, they should haue heard wanton verses read? or wantonly? or by a wanton? or with a vaine-glorious minde? or on the stage? In deede, they should haue heard 7some wanton verses, I graunt: and both out of due place, and time, if you had read it 8where, & 9when it was acted. Neither doe I doubt but the Universitie would haue thought such open reading, of such stuffe, on such a day, absurd: though, whether more absurd, then to haue seene it acted as it was, I know not. But whatsoever they would haue thought in this comparison, wherein the flaw, that you cite, noting both with infamie, should giue (mee thinkes) a deeper print thereof to acting then reading, all things weighed: you are farre ⟨p. 143⟩from hitting the marke, whereat you shoote; namely, from cō vincing by the Universities testimonie, and iudgement, my sentence as absurd, that if your tragedie had bene recited onely, I would have accounted it no more losse of time to haue heard you pronounce it, then my selfe to reade it. For, I did not meane, if it had bene recited as those were, which the autours by you alleaged, doe reproove: but as gHorace vsed to 1recite his owne writings; as 2poëmes were recited to Quintilius Uarus; as hPersius did recite his booke vnto Cornutus, before he published it. Whereof if you pronounce (as you doe, if you speake to purpose) that our Universitie would haue thought it a more absurd thing, then to have seene it acted as it was: you deale in like maner with our Vniversitie, as Gryllus with the reverend bench of Areopagus, if he should abuse their name and estimation, to perswade that brute beastes have more reason, then the wisest men have.
7In Melanthos part, & Eurymachus.
8Qui pronuntiandi causa in scenam prodierit.
9Die Dominico.
fL. 1. D. de his qui not. infam.
gLib. 1. sat 4.
1Non recite cuiquam, nisi amicis, idque coactus. Non ubivis corámve quibuslibet.Non recite cuiquam, nisi amicis, idque coactus. Non vbiuis corámve quibuslibet.
2Quintilio si quid recitares corrige sodes Hoc aiebat, & hoc. Hora. de art. poet.
hPersii vita. Gloss. vet. […] Persium.Persii vita. Gloss. vet. 〈…〉 Persium.
Hereto would be annexed that, which in the fourth and, last head of reasons, you urge again concerning our Universities judgement for the approbation of your plays in general: if your interlaced defence of wasteful cost in setting forth thereof (the only point remaining besides) were discussed. And this is easily done, considering what hath been already proved against you touching the inconveniences and mischiefs of your plays. For having made Momus object the great charges; which how great they were, you know better then I, who summed them perhaps too much beneath the due when I did mention thirty pound; but having made him say that it should have been bestowed on the poor rather, you take him up with three answers: one, that the money was your own, not his; an other, that the charge, though great to him, was mean to you; the third, that none would give the less to the poor for that, none would have given the more without it. All the which I showed to be of no force for warranting of expenses on things of that quality, because, both unhonest spending of a mans own, is wastefulness & riot, condemned by our Saviour in the prodigal son: and, as Nero giving much to get a Plaudit, was the less able to help the poor by so much, and the less willing too perhaps; in like ⟨p. 144⟩sort may you be. Hereupon you demand of me, What similitude is there, or can there be, between the prodigal son, that in such a sort, as he did, spent all, and brought him self to the extremest misery; and between your expense? A question, which you would not have pressed, as you do; for your unlikeness to him in that he wasted all, and brought him self to extreme misery thereby: if you had considered that 3word in the original text of the Gospel, whereto my quotation for iriot did direct you. For usually it noteth the quality of expenses made by loose & wanton persons on their pleasures, as in foreign writers, kAristotle and lTully; so in mScripture likewise: and, to that effect in the same parable of the prodigal son is it said nafterward, that he devoured his goods 4with harlots. Now, in Rome, of old time, there were common 5harlots to be hired for 6two pence half-penny. The price in our days, by reason of the otribute, which they are to pay the Pope, may be enhanced.
Hereto would be annexed that, which in the fourth and, last head of reasons, you vrge againe concerning our Universities iudgement for the approbation of your playes in generall: if your interlaced defense of wastfull cost in setting foorth therof (the onely point remaining besides) were discussed. And this is easilie done, considering what hath bene alreadie prooved against you touching the inconveniences and mischifes of your playes. For having made Momus obiect the great charges; which how great they were, you know better then I, who summed them perhaps too much beneath the due whē I did mention thirtie pound; but having made him say that it should haue bene bestowed on the poore rather, you take him vp with three answeres: one, that the mony was your own, not his; an other, that the charge, though great to him, was meane to you; the thirde, that none would give the lesse to the poore for that, none would have given the more without it. All the which I shewed to be of no force for warrāting of expēses on things of that qualitie, because, both vnhonest spending of a mans owne, is wastfulnes & riott, condemned by our Saviour in the prodigall sonne: and, as Nero giving much to gett a Plaudite, was the lesse able to help the poore by so much, and the lesse willing too perhaps; in like ⟨p. 144⟩sort may you be. Herevpon you demand of me, What similitude is there, or can there be, betweene the prodigall sonne, that in such a sort, as he did, spent all, and brought him selfe to the extreemest miserie; and betweene your expense? A question, which you would not have pressed, as you doe; for your vnlikenes to him in that he wasted all, and brought him selfe to extreeme miserie thereby: if you had considered that 3woord in the originall text of the Gospell, whereto my quotation for iriott did direct you. For vsually it noteth the qualitie of expenses made by loose & wanton persons on their pleasures, as in forein writers, kAristotle and lTullie; so in mScripture likewise: and, to that effect in the same parable of the prodigall sonne is it said nafterward, that he devoured his goods 4
6Two oboli being the third part of drachma, or denarius; & eight drachma, or denarii, weighing an ounce of silver.Two oboli beeing the third part of drachma, or denarius; & eight drachma, or denarii, weighing an ounce of siluer.
oJo. Athon. gloss. in constit. Othon. de concubin. clericor. removend. Fr. Sansovin. de administr. regnor & rerumpub. lib. 11. cap. de mareschallo.Io. Athon. gloss. in constit. Othon. de concubin. clericor. remouend. Fr. Sansouin. de administr. regnor & rerumpub. lib. 11. cap. de mareschallo.
But if one, desirous of an harlots company, could have her so cheap, and should plead for him self that the money he spendeth on her is his own, & the charge not great, neither would he give the less unto the poor for that, nor more without it: were this a lawful bar to stay us from accusing him of 7riot, I mean, of wasteful and unhonest spending; (give it a fitter English name, if you know any; I took that which our best interpreters agree on;) but might we not accuse him thereof upon the same ground that Scripture doeth the prodigal son? Or, if some Preacher, more severe then pCato, should deal so strictly and rigorously with him; might he ask what similitude there is, or can be, between his expense of two pence half-penny, and the prodigal son, who in such a sort, as he did, spent all, and brought himself to the extremest misery? Much fault have you found with my hard incomparable comparisons and similitudes; & some of them are 8hard in deed, though none incomparable: but I must say thereof, as the Apostle of his boasting, qyou have compelled me. For when I took a softer and more gentle course, as here, to encounter that answer made to Momus, Thou sayest the charge is great; but thou mayst come, and look on, Momus, and pay nothing, no man doeth ask thee a penny; ⟨p. 145⟩I resembled it to an answer which the prodigal son might thus have made to his reprover, Thou blamest me for wasting, but I wast none of thine; thou mayst drink with me scot-free, if thou be a good fellow, & welcome: albeit the very word, wasting, might have showed I meant unhonest spending, (for rthings spent honestly are not wasted,) chiefly sith I used it in respect of the riot noted by our Saviour; and in the unthrifts speech, drawing good fellows to drink with him, I pointed to his lusty, excessive, dissolute sdrinkings with lewd companions like himself; yet you did reply, that, if he had been as moderate and thrifty in spending at his board, as you were at your plays, he might well enough have said to any niggard, that should have unwisely found fault with him, as much as I make him say, not with the note of a prodigal, but with the commendation of an ingenuous and liberal disposition.
But if one, desirous of an harlots company, could have her so cheape, and should pleade for him self that the moony he spendeth on her is his owne, & the charge not great, neither would he geve the lesse vnto the poore for that, nor more without it: were this a lawfull barre to stay vs from accusing him of 7riott, I meane, of wastfull and vnhonest spending; (give it a fitter English name, if you know any; I tooke that which our best interpreters agree on;) but might we not accuse him thereof vpon the same ground that Scripture doeth the prodigall sonne? Or, if some Preacher, more severe then pCato, should deale so strictly and rigorously with him; might he aske what similitude there is, or can be, betweene his expense of two pence half-peny, and the prodigall sonne, who in such a sort, as he did, spent all, and brought himselfe to the extremest miserie? Much fault haue you found with my hard incomparable comparisons and similitudes; & some of them are 8hard in deede, though none incōparable: but I must say thereof, as the Apostle of his boasting, qyou haue compelled me. For when I tooke a softer and more gentle course, as here, to encounter that aunswere made to Momus, Thou saist the charge is great; but thou mayst come, and looke on, Momus, and pay nothing, no man doeth aske thee a peny; ⟨p. 145⟩I resembled it to an aunswere which the prodigall sonne might thus haue made to his reproover, Thou blamest me for wasting, but I wast none of thine; thou mayst drinke with me scotfree, if thou be a good felow, & welcome: albeit the very woord, wasting, might haue shewed I meant vnhonest spending, (for rthinges spent honestly are not wasted,) chiefly sith I vsed it in respect of the riot noted by our Saviour; and in the vnthrifts speech, drawing good felowes to drinke with him, I pointed to his lusty, excessive, dissolute sdrinkings with lewde companions like himselfe; yet you did reply, that, if hee had bene as moderate and thrifty in spending at his boord, as you were at your playes, he might well enough have said to any niggard, that should haue vnwisely found fault with him, as much as I make him say, not with the note of a prodigall, but with the commendation of an ingenuous and liberall disposition.
7[Greek or Hebrew]〈non-Latin alphabet〉
pHorat. satyrar. li 1. sat. 2
8Sed quid opus teneras mordaci radere vero Auricolas? Pers. sat. 1.
Whereby you make me see, to what reproachful contumelies of a niggardly mind, and want of wisdom and discretion, I should have laid my self open, if I had still endeavoured to disclose unto you the weakness of your answers by gentle similitudes. That similitude therefore of mine, the tender smoothness whereof occasioned you to mistake my meaning, and entertain it so coarsely, I have now corrected with substituting a rougher, which may deliver you from error, and me from such taunts. For seeing you perceive this to be my meaning, that the threefold answer made by you to Momus is like as if tGallonius, or some other Epicure, reproved by a Stoic for going to the stews, should answer him; Thou blamest me for spending two pence half-penny on a wench, but I spend none of thine; thou mayest go with me thither, if thou be a good fellow, & I will give her as much for thee too; the charge, though it seem great to thee, is small to me; neither will I bestow a dodkin less upon the poor for that, nor more without it: you will not reply, that if Gallonius had been as moderate and thrifty in his spending at his bed, as you were at your plays, (they cost a number of you more, you wot, in several, then twice two pence half-penny;) he might well enough have said to any niggard, that should have unwisely found fault with him, as much as I make him say, not with the note of a prodigal, but with the ⟨p. 146⟩commendation of an ingenuous and liberal disposition. And so, by the other similitude likewise mended, and as it were rough hewen, you may the better learn to discern my drift, and spare your own replying. For when, to discover the poverty of your answer touching the poor, I said, that Nero peradventure was either less able, or less willing to help the poor, by reason of five or six thousand pound given for a Plaudit; which charge notwithstanding he might better bear, then some of your students may five or six shillings: you replied, that, if Nero could have as well spared such huge sums of money, which he spent that way often, as your House, with the company in it, and belonging to it, can once in many years thirty pounds: Nero should have been wronged greatly, being an Emperor, to have been noted of wastefulness; and, if ever he had any such good mind, he mought nevertheless have relieved the poor.
Whereby you make mee see, to what reprochefull contumelies of a niggardly minde, and want of wisedome and discretion, I should haue laid my selfe open, if I had still endevoured to disclose vnto you the weaknes of your aunswers by gentle similitudes. That similitude therefore of mine, the tender smoothnes whereof occasioned you to mistake my meaning, and intertaine it so coursly, I have now corrected with substituting a rougher, which may deliver you from errour, and me from such tantes. For seeing you perceve this to be my meaning, that the threefold answer made by you to Momus is like as if tGallonius, or some other Epicure, reprooved by a Stoike for going to the stewes, should answer him; Thou blamest me for spending two pence half-peny on a wench, but I spend none of thine; thou maist goe with me thither, if thou be a good felow, & I will give her as much for thee too; the charge, though it seeme great to thee, is small to me; neither will I bestow a dodkin lesse vpon the poore for that, nor more without it: you will not reply, that if Gallonius had bene as moderate and thrifty in his spending at his bedde, as you were at your playes, (they cost a number of you more, you wote, in severall, then twise two pence halfe-peny;) hee might well enough have said to any niggard, that should haue vnwisely found fault with him, as much as I make him say, not with the note of a prodigall, but with the ⟨p. 146⟩commendation of an ingenuous and liberall disposition. And so, by the other similitude likewise mended, and as it were rough hewen, you may the better learne to discerne my drift, and spare your owne replying. For when, to discover the povertie of your aunswere touching the poore, I said, that Nero peradventure was either lesse able, or lesse willing to helpe the poore, by reason of five or sixe thousand pownd given for a Plaudite; which charge notwithstanding he might better beare, then some of your students may fiue or six shillings: you replyed, that, if Nero could haue as well spared such huge summes of moony, which hee spent that way often, as your House, with the company in it, and belonging to it, can once in many yeares thirty powndes: Nero should haue bene wronged greatly, being an Emperour, to haue bene noted of wastfulnes; and, if ever hee had any such good minde, hee mought neverthelesse haue releeved the poore.
Now, altering and changing Neros charge on Plaudit into vhis charge on Act (a harlot whom he loved better then his wife,) and telling you that he was less able, or less willing (nay, both) to help the poor, by reason of 9gifts bestowed on her: I shall not hear, I trust, that, if Nero could have as well spared the sundry sums of money which he spent that way often, as your House, with the company in it, and belonging to it, can once in many years thirty pounds: Nero should have been wronged greatly, being an Emperor, to have been noted of wastefulness. No, not, though in adding that clause, being an Emperor, you seem to allude to xAristotle's saying, that 1Princes are not termed wasteful, or prodigal. For therein he respecteth 2the abundance of their wealth, which Nero could hardly exceed in gifts and expenses: not the 3quality of the matters that they spend their wealth on, wherein as prodigal persons may and do wast, so Nero. Neither will you affirm that Nero mought nevertheless have relieved the poor; for fear least you cause your reader to suspect you of shamelessness, or sophistry. Shamelessness, if you say, that, whatsoever it were which Nero gave to Act, he had no whit the less in his coffers to give others. Sophistry, if by the word nevertheless, you mean, notwithstanding. For Phoedria in the yComedy, mought have helped Parmeno, notwithstanding ⟨p. 147⟩the money that he spent on Thais. Yet 4the greater charge he was at with his harlot, the less had he remaining to give his poor servant. And your doubt, if Nero had ever any such good mind, will be as badly opposed unto my speech of his less willingness. For both him self, zhaving so good a mind once, became aworse minded afterward, when he was grown bwasteful such ways, yea, simply wasteful, proving that to be possible which Aristotle judgeth 5not easy to be done: and if he had always been equally ill-minded, yet cometh it otherwise to pass in mans nature, as you might have learned by Caesar and Plutarch. Of whom the one, beholding certain rich strangers and foreigners, at Rome, carrying whelps of dogs and apes in their bosoms, and making much of them, did ask, Whether women brought not forth children in their countries:
Nowe, altering and changing Neros charge on Plaudite into vhis charge on Acte (a harlot whom hee loved better then his wife,) and telling you that he was lesse able, or lesse willing (nay, both) to helpe the poore, by reason of 9gifts bestowed on her: I shall not heare, I trust, that, if Nero could haue as well spared the sundry summes of moony which he spent that way often, as your House, with the company in it, and belonging to it, can once in many yeares thirty powndes: Nero should haue bene wronged greatly, beeing an Emperour, to haue bene noted of wastfulnes. No, not, though in adding that clause, being an Emperour, you seeme to allude to xAristotles saying, that 1Princes are not termed wastfull, or prodigall. For therin he respecteth 2the abundance of their wealth, which Nero could hardly exceede in gifts and expenses: not the 3qualitie of the matters that they spend their wealth on, wherin as prodigall persons may and doe wast, so Nero. Neither will you affirme that Nero mought neverthelesse have releeved the poore; for feare least you cause your reader to suspect you of shamelesnesse, or sophistrie. Shamelesnesse, if you say, that, whatsoever it were which Nero gaue to Acte, he had no whit the lesse in his coffers to giue others. Sophistrie, if by the woorde neverthelesse, you meane, notwithstanding. For Phoedria in the yComedie, mought haue helped Parmeno, notwithstanding ⟨p. 147⟩the moony that he spent on Thais. Yet 4the greater charge he was at with his harlot, the lesse had he remaining to giue his poore seruant. And your dout, if Nero had ever any such good minde, will bee as badly opposed vnto my speech of his lesse willinglesse. For both him selfe, zhaving so good a minde once, became a
vCorn. Tacit. annal. li. 13.
9Quae Princeps furtim mulierculae tribuebat.
xEthicor. li. […].Ethicor. li. 〈…〉.
1[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
2[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
3[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
yTerent. Eun.
4Nam quod nos capere oportet haec intercipit.
zSueton Ner. cap. 10.
aCap. 32. & 38.
bca. 30. & 31.
5[Greek or Hebrew] in the words alleged.〈non-Latin alphabet〉 in ye woords alleaged.
generalitie of his wordes, exemplified by Nero, maketh plaine.
single. Which how much, & why, it is more allowable, then men and women to danse together: I wish you to consider, by weighing, with examples mentioned in
Divines thereon. So shall you perceiue, that Homer in the eight booke of his Odyssea, hath no sufficient warrant for Melantho to danse together with Eurymachus, the maides with the wooers; no not though they were maides and Melantho in deede; much lesse for boyes attired like Melantho, & maides, to danse with men vpon a stage. The later of your autours you alleage directlie; and, that learned Knight Syr Thomas Eliot, say you, among other things that he writeth in a booke of his, in the prayse of dansing, compareth the man treading the measures, to Fortitude, and the woman on his hande, to Temperance.
all sortes of wounds. Wherfore this being it, that represented Fortitude in the danse described by Syr Thomas Eliot: farre was it frō his meaning to make your measures, your sober measures, warlike motions; or compare a wooer treading them, to Fortitude. As farre, as to compare a boy doeing the same in maidens likenes, to Temperance. Which, if you had otherwise expressed his sense rightlie, yet should you haue forborne to apply to yours for the observing of decorum, a thing that you commend so in Homer, and your selfe aime at: sith those maides and wooers, intended both by Homer and you, to be wantons, must vse lascivious danses; and the man (if you will needes haue such resemblances) bee compared rather to Mollitude, or Cowardnes, the woman to Incontinencie. Beside that, the praise which that learned Knight geveth vnto dansing, he giveth it not simply;
〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
he prayseth Lucians stage-danser, who dansed the adulterie of Mars and Venus with resembling of
every act therein, (which I hope, your selfe would not allow on your stage;) you should haue acknowledged that through too great a love of dansing, he liked too well of Lucians treatise: though otherwise he fansied not the autour much; as
his ribaudrie, and his too much scorning; and by saying farther, It were better that a childe should never read any part of Lucian, then all Lucian. Or, if the sentence of a Knight, so woorthy, had such credit with you;
by the flower of those persons, by whose partes (you say) no hurt could come to any man: and Syr Thomas Eliot thought that such speeches, savouring of Paganisme, might corrupt good wittes. But howsoever you shall distinguish your Poëme from the balades and dities, in which he controlleth this irreligious custome of giving the honour of God to vile idoles: your selfe doe beare witnesse that he commēdeth not the dansing of Eurymachus & the rest of your wooers with their Melanthos on the stage. For among the partes of their dissolute behaviour imagined to be doon within, you rehearse their
Telemachus. Now looke what was imagined to bee doon within, the same was expressed on the stage in part, by your owne confession: as Telemachus also saith, that in
their maners at home they kept their wont, Their dansing on the stage then, your self acknowledge, was vnhonest dansing. And the dansing praysed by Syr Thomas Eliot is honest dansing, you say. Therefore you doe manifest wrong vnto vs both, in alleaging him as praysing that which I dispraysed.
Quos jam reliqui more viventes suo, Tumultuantes, atque saltantes domi.
Creatures voide of reason. But suppose that some man being of Gryllus minde, (or let vs call him Gryllus for more perspicuitie, and make Sempronius likewise his adversaries name;) suppose then that Gryllus having asked this question,
Doe you thinke that animal, a living creature indued with sense, wanteth reason? Sempronius answered him, that animal is one thing, and a beast an other, as
doest thou make our Emperour a Nabuchodonosor? But, I pray you, leave this Eunuches odious practise in racking my cōparisons: and marke the maine point whereat I aime in them, and which I seeke to open by them. For, as in Gryllus question, and verse, framed like yours, the circumstances giue, that he vsed the generall woord comprising man, thereby to breed a fansie that if this kinde of animal haue reason, why not the other? In like sorte your expresse mention of
reading, I say, of reading, not of playing, in shewing what a iewell you take the reciting of Seneca to be; maketh it probable that you meant to doe by the generalitie of the woord recitare.
getting mens applause, which Persius iesteth at. Now in that you adde hereto the Universitie, and make vs ioyne with the former in opinion, saying; So the Vniversitie would have thought it a more absurd thing, to have heard me, or any other, openly reading my Ulysses to them, then to have seene it acted, as it was: what meane you by this terme, So?
6At pulchrum est digito monstrari, & dicier, hic est.
with harlotts. Now, in Rome, of olde time, there were common
not easy to bee done: and if he had alwayes bene equally ill-minded, yet commeth it otherwise to passe in mans nature, as you might haue learned by Caesar and Plutarch. Of whom the one, beholding certaine rich strangers and foreiners, at Rome, carying whelpes of dogges and apes in their bosomes, and making much of them, did aske, Whether wemen brought not foorth children in their countries:
