The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head…The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head…
The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundry points, of the sufficiency and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministry of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the mass, with other controversies of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-government ... Penned by John Rainoldes, according to the notes set down in writing by them both: perused by John Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithful report of that which past in conference between them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise entitled, Six conclusions touching the Holy Scripture and the Church, written by John Rainoldes. With a defence of such things as Thomas Stapleton and Gregory Martin have carped at therein.The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein.
John Rainolds 1549–1607Londini: printed by John Wolfe, 1584Londini: printed by Iohn Wolfe, 1584
475, [1], 479-674, 659-750 p. · 304k words · STC 20626 · ESTC S115546
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Hart. But ethey were sitting on four and twenty seats about the throne of God: and fthe throne is said to have been set in heaven. Wherefore it can not be that the Saints on earth should be meant thereby.
Hart. But ethey were sitting on foure and twentie seates about the throne of God: and fthe throne is saide to haue béene set in heauen. Wherefore it can not be that the Saintes on earth should be meant thereby.
Rainoldes. Why? Was not S. Paul on earth when he said gour *conversation is in heaven? Or, doth he not mean the same of all the faithful, who live after the laws of the heavenly city, that is, the Church of God, and are not earthly minded? Doth not S. John him self in the Revelation say that ha great ⟨p. 559⟩wonder appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon was under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars, and she was with child, and cried travailing in birth, and was pained ready to be delivered? And is not the Church on earth hereby meant, clad as it were with Christ, who is
there was a battle in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels, but they prevailed not, nether was their place found any more in heaven? And is not this also meant of the militant Church: in which
the devil, with his angels, even all his powers and ministers, and doth prevail against them? Then if the Church militant on earth be represented both in this battle and in that woman, as
your selves confess, and yet S. John describeth the one to have appeared, the other to be done in heaven: the four & twenty Elders might have their seats in heaven by S. Johns vision, and notwithstanding signify the faithful on the earth also. Which yet I say not, as defining it to be so; for I had rather learn then teach the Revelation, wherein I do acknowledge there are many mysteries that God hath not revealed to me: but only to show that you have no ground in the holy scripture why you should restrain it to the Saints in heaven. And if I could satisfy my self with such advantage to pluck down your fancies, as you content your selves with to set them up: I might as well restrain it to the Saints on earth, sith the Elders say,
the meek are blessed, for they shall inherit the earth. But you and your Rhemists should have done well (before you meddled with the scriptures) to learn S.
Rainoldes. Why? Was not S. Paul on earth when he said gour *conuersation is in heauen? Or, doth he not meane the same of all the faithfull, who liue after the lawes of the heauenly citie, that is, the Church of God, and are not earthly minded? Doth not S. Iohn him selfe in the Reuelation say that ha great ⟨p. 559⟩wonder appeered in heauen: a woman clothed with the sunne, and the moone was vnder her feete, and vpon her head a crowne of twelue starres, and she was with childe, and cryed trauailing in birth, and was pained readie to be deliuered? And is not the Church on earth hereby meant, clad as it were with Christ, who is ithe sunne of righteousnes; treading downe kthings worldly, which change as the moone; adorned with the doctrine of the Apostles, as of lstarres; and bringing forth the faithfull, mas children, vnto God? Doth not he say farther that nthere was a battel in heauen: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels, but they preuailed not, nether was their place found any more in heauen? And is not this also meant of the militant Church: in which othe Prince of the faithfull, *Michael, that is Christ, with his pangels and qseruants, doth fight against the dragon, that is, rthe deuil, with his angels, euen all his powers and ministers, and doth preuaile against them? Then if the Church militant on earth be represented both in this battel and in that woman, as syour selues confesse, and yet S. Iohn describeth the one to haue appeered, the other to be doon in heauen: the foure & twentie Elders might haue their seates in heauen by S. Iohns vision, and notwithstanding signifie the faithfull on the earth also. Which yet I say not, as defining it to be so; for I had rather learne then teach the Reuelation, wherein I doo acknowledge there are many mysteries that God hath not reuealed to me: but onely to shew that you haue no ground in the holy scripture why you should restraine it to the Saintes in heauen. And if I could satisfie my selfe with such aduantage to plucke downe your fansies, as you content your selues with to set them vp: I might as well restraine it to the Saintes on earth, sith the Elders say, twe shall raigne vpon the earth; perhaps, as Christ said, that uthe meeke are blessed, for they shal inherite the earth. But you and your Rhemists should haue doon well (before you medled with the scriptures) to learne S.
*[Greek or Hebrew] that is to say, who is as God, or equal to God. Phil. 2.6.〈non-Latin alphabet〉 that is to say, who is as God, or equall to God. Phil. 2.6.
Austins lesson given to the Donatists: who when they alleged as fit a place of scripture out of xthe song of Solomon to prove that the Church was in Africa alone, as you to prove that Saints in heaven know our desires, out of the Revelation: S. yAustin telleth them that he were very impudent ⟨p. 560⟩who would expound an allegory or dark speech of scripture for his own advantage, unless he have also plain and manifest testimonies, by the light whereof the dark may be made evident. Which point in this place doth touch you the nearer, because, though it be granted that the Elders signify the Saints in heaven alone: yet zthe prayers, which are spoken off, may be their own prayers, to show that athey serve God, as it is showed after that bthe Angels do, and call the creatures in heaven, and on the earth, and in the sea, and under the earth, and dthe four beasts, and finally them selves again. For, there are manifest testimonies of scripture that all the Saints offer up their own prayers, in which respect they all are Priests. But no manifest testimony, that their prayers are offered in heaven unto God by any other person then eby Christ Jesus, fthe high Priest of our profession, gthe Angel of the covenant, hthe only mediator between God and man. And this doth seem to be that Angel, that other Angel, of whom it is written in the Revelation, iAn other Angel came and stood before the altar having a golden censer, and there was much odours given unto him that he should put them into the prayers of all the Saints on the golden altar which is before the throne: and the smoke of the odours, which were put into the prayers of the Saints, went up before God out of the Angels hand. For although the Angels be kministering spirits, sent forth to minister for the Saints on earth, who shall inherit salvation, and therefore as lthey serve to certify them that their prayers are come up before God, so they might rather offer their prayers to God, then the Saints in heaven, who have no such ministry to serve the Saints on earth: yet because this Angel standing with a censer at the altar of incense to burn perfume before God, is set forth as doing that duty, mwhich the hie Priest did figure in the law; and nour high Priest is, no created Angel, but he *by whom the Angels were created, even Christ; it followeth that Christ is meant by the Angel.
Austins lesson giuen to the Donatists: who when they alleaged as fit a place of scripture out of xthe song of Salomon to proue that the Church was in Afrike alone, as you to proue that Saintes in heauen know our desires, out of the Reuelation: S. yAustin telleth them that he were very impudent ⟨p. 560⟩who would expound an allegorie or darke speech of scripture for his owne aduantage, vnlesse he haue also plaine and manifest testimonies, by the light whereof the darke may be made euident. Which point in this place doth touch you the néerer, because, though it be graunted that the Elders signify the Saintes in heauen alone: yet zthe praiers, which are spoken off, may be their owne praiers, to shew that athey serue God, as it is shewed after that bthe Angels doo, and call the creatures in heauen, and on the earth, and in the sea, and vnder the earth, and dthe foure beasts, and finally them selues againe. For, there are manifest testimonies of scripture that all the Saintes offer vp their owne praiers, in which respect they all are Priests. But no manifest testimonie, that their praiers are offered in heauen vnto God by anie other person then eby Christ Iesus, fthe hye Priest of our profession, gthe Angell of the couenant, hthe onely mediator betweene God and man. And this doth séeme to be that Angel, that other Angell, of whom it is writen in the Reuelation, iAn other Angell came and stoode before the altar hauing a golden censer, and there was much odours giuen vnto him that he should put them into the prayers of all the Saintes on the golden altar which is before the throne: and the smoke of the odours, which were put into the prayers of the Saintes, went vp before God out of the Angels hand. For although the Angels be
xCant. 1.7. ubi pa•cis, ubi cubas in meridie. Augustin. de unitat▪ eccles. cap. 16.Cant. 1.7. vbi pa•cis, vbi cubas in meridie. Augustin. de vnitat▪ eccles. cap. 16.
To whom this name is given oftentimes in oscripture, because he is an Angel, that is to say, a messenger, sent by God his father to open his will unto his servants, and work their salvation by his covenant. And it may be, that, as God the father phaving said of him, Behold I send an ⟨p. 561⟩Angel, qdoth add, my name is in him, to show that he is *God: so, to distinguish him from the created Angels, who are often mentioned in the Revelation, S. John doth call him an other Angel, as differing from the rest, not only in number, but also in nature, authority, and dignity. For those things which are written of the Angel, who rhad the seal of the living God; who scasting fire into the earth the Angels blew their trumpets, and poured out the plagues of God: who tcoming down from heaven, clothed with a cloud, and the rainbow upon his head, and his face was as the sun, & his feet as pillars of fire, had in his hand a little book, & set his right foot on the sea, and his left foot on the land; which are namely written of an other Angel, an other mighty Angel, as he is also called: do (if the circumstances of the text be weighed) best agree to Christ. But whether it be so, or no: it is certain that Christ is the Angel who putteth odours of most sweet perfume into the prayers of all the Saints, as our high Priest, and offereth them to God his father, to whom uhe maketh always intercession for us, and is not only for our prayers but for our selves also xan odour of a sweet smelling savour before him. Wherefore sith the scripture manifestly showeth that our Saviour Christ offereth the prayers of all the Saints, and not that the Saints in heaven offer the prayers of the Saints on earth: you might have been contented to leave this honour unto Christ, and have suffered me to go forward with your reasons about the offering in Malachi. For you see how we are fallen from the Pope to Priests, from Priests to the Mass, from Mass to the Saints.
To whom this name is giuen oftentimes in oscripture, because he is an Angel, that is to say, a messenger, sent by God his father to open his will vnto his seruants, and worke their saluation by his couenant. And it may be, that, as God the father phauing said of him, Behold I send an ⟨p. 561⟩Angell, qdoth adde, my name is in him, to shew that he is *God: so, to distinguish him from the created Angels, who are often mentioned in the Reuelation, S. Iohn doth cal him an other Angell, as differing from the rest, not onely in number, but also in nature, autoritie, and dignitie. For those things which are writen of the Angell, who rhad the seale of the liuing God; who scasting fier into the earth the Angels blew their trumpets, and powred out the plagues of God: who tcomming downe from heauen, clothed with a clowde, and the rainebow vpon his head, and his face was as the sunne, & his feete as pillers of fier, had in his hand a little booke, & set his right foote on the sea, and his left foote on the lande; which are namely written of an other Angell, an other mightie Angel, as he is also called: doo (if the circumstances of the text be weighed) best agrée to Christ. But whether it be so, or no: it is certaine that Christ is the Angell who putteth odours of most sweete perfume into the prayers of all the Saintes, as our hye Priest, and offreth them to God his father, to whom uhe maketh alwayes intercession for vs, and is not onely for our prayers but for our selues also xan odour of a sweete smelling sauour before him. Wherefore sith the scripture manifestly sheweth that our Sauiour Christ offreth the prayers of all the Saintes, and not that the Saintes in heauen offer the prayers of the Saintes on earth: you might haue bene contented to leaue this honour vnto Christ, and haue suffred me to go forward with your reasons about the offering in Malachie. For you see how we are fallen from the Pope to Priests, from Priests to the Masse, from Masse to the Saintes.
And if I should follow the same vein on that which you have said of Saints, and touch your abuse, who confessing that the scriptures give that name to faithful and holy persons in earth, yet (to maintain your solemn invocation of dead men) do make it proper, not to Saints in heaven, but to them whom it shall please ythe Pope to zcanonize, or 1deify, (as 2the Master of his sacred ceremonies termeth it,) wherein notwithstanding ayour Doctors also teach that the Pope may err, and canonize a wicked person for a Saint, so that it may be (even by your own doctrine) that in your Church-service you worship them, as Saints, whose spirits are in hell with the devil and his Angels: I say, if I should flit ⟨p. 562⟩thus from point to point on every occasion that your speech doth offer, we should confound our conference, and never make an end of the point in question. Wherefore let other questions I pray be reserved to their due place touching the faith of the Church. And now, to finish this touching the head of the Church, let us go forward with your Mass-priests, that so we may return to the Popes supremacy. Of the six reasons therefore which you alleged out of D. Allen, to prove, that the clean offering which Malachi doth write of is the sacrifice of the Mass, and not spiritual sacrifices: the first is convinced clearly to be false, and that by the consent of all the same Fathers whom he would prove it by. For bthe word, which noteth an outward sacrifice with him, with all them is cincense of sweet perfumes and odours. But incense in the scripture is taken for the prayers of the Saints as you grant. The word then which he doth build the Mass upon, is not always taken properly in scripture for the act of outward sacrifice.
And if I should folow the same veyne on that which you haue saide of Saintes, and touch your abuse, who confessing that the scriptures giue that name to faithfull and holy persons in earth, yet (to maintaine your solemne inuocation of dead men) do make it proper, not to Saintes in heauen, but to them whom it shall please ythe Pope to zcanonize, or 1deifie, (as 2the Master of his sacred ceremonies termeth it,) wherin notwithstanding ayour Doctors also teache that the Pope may erre, and canonize a wicked person for a Saint, so that it may be (euen by your owne doctrine) that in your Church-seruice you worship them, as Saints, whose spirits are in hell with the deuill and his Angels: I say, if I should flit ⟨p. 562⟩thus from point to point on euery occasion that your speech doth offer, we should confound our conference, and neuer make an end of the point in question. Wherefore let other questions I pray be reserued to their due place touchinge the faith of the Church. And now, to finish this touching the head of the Church, let vs go forward with your Masse-priestes, that so we may returne to the Popes supremacy. Of the sixe reasons therfore which you alleaged out of D. Allen, to proue, that the cleane offring which Malachie doth write of is the sacrifice of the Masse, and not spirituall sacrifices: the first is conuinced clearely to be false, and that by the consent of all the same Fathers whom he would proue it by. For bthe word, which noteth an outward sacrifice with him, with all them is cincense of sweete perfumes and odours. But incense in the scripture is taken for the praiers of the Saintes as you grant. The word then which he doth build the Masse vpon, is not alwayes taken properly in scripture for the act of outward sacrifice.
1That is •o say, admit in to the number of the Gods. As the heathenish Romans, before they would worship their Emperors, as Gods, did use to deify them. Herodian. lib. 4. [Greek or Hebrew].That is •o say, admit in to the number of the Gods. As the heathenish Romans, before they would worship their Emperours, as Gods, did vse to deifie them. Herodian. lib. 4. 〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
aThom. Aquin. quodlibet. •. at. 16. Antonin. Sum. Theol. part. 3. tit. 12. cap. 8. Cai•tan. opusc. de indulgenti•s ad Cardin. Medicem. cap. 8. Canus Locor. Theolog. l. 5. c. 5. Pellarmin. in praelectionib. Rom. cont•over. 4. quest. •.Thom. Aquin. quodlibet. •. att. 16. Antonin. Summ. Theol. part. 3. tit. 12. cap. 8. Cai•tan. opusc. de indulgenti•s ad Cardin. Medicem. cap. 8. Canus Locor. Theolog. l. 5. c. 5. Pellarmin. in praelectionib. Rom. cont•ouer. 4. qu•st. •.
bSacrificatur.
c[Greek or Hebrew] […] the Greek Fathers, in the Latin, a word answering thereto: as incensum, August. contr. aduers. leg. l. 1. cap. 20. or odours incensi, Cypr. contr. Judaeos l. 1. c. 16.
Hart. But he doth not only urge the word, to sacrifice, for which indeed the Fathers and the Hebrew text have incense: but the word, to offer. And if that be always taken properly for the act of outward sacrifice: his reason is of force still.
Hart. But he doth not onely vrge the word, to sacrifice, for which indéede the Fathers and the Hebrewe text haue incense: but the word, to offer. And if that be alwaies taken properly for the act of outward sacrifice: his reason is of force still.
Rainoldes. But the force of his reason doth lye upon the word, to sacrifice, not to offer. For dhim self granteth that lay men, yea women too, are said to offer properly and truly: when, as in ethe old law the tithes and first fruits commanded to be given to the Levites and the poor were presented before God; so they present bread and wine for the communion, or alms for the relief of the poor and needy, or any earthly gifts and offerings for holy uses, as fthe Fathers show. Wherefore though the word, to offer, were always taken properly for the act of outward offering: it proveth not the offering of your outward sacrifice: sith gthe wise men offered gifts unto Christ, hthe faithful Jews at the altar, ilay men and women at the Mass; and yet nether any of them were Massing-priests, nor their offerings, Massing-hosts. Much less doth it prove it, as Malachi applieth it to the offering of incense. For, as incense signifieth the prayers of the Saints: so to offer incense must be to sacrifice those prayers. But the sacrifice of prayers is a spiritual sacrifice. Wherefore the word to offer, doth not prove your outward sacrifice of the Mass. ⟨p. 563⟩And so the first reason is gone. The second followeth: which is no sounder then the former. For why doth Allen say, that the sacrifice spoken of in Malachi is one: and therefore betokeneth not spiritual sacrifices, the which are as many as there are Christian good works?
Rainoldes. But the force of his reason doth lye vpon the word, to sacrifice, not to offer. For dhim selfe granteth that lay men, yea women too, are said to offer properly and truely: when, as in ethe olde law the tithes and first fruites commanded to be giuen to the Leuites and the poore were presented before God; so they present bread and wine for the communion, or almes for the reliefe of the poore and needy, or any earthly giftes and offerings for holy vses, as fthe Fathers shew. Wherefore though the word, to offer, were alwaies taken properly for the act of outward offering: it proueth not the offering of your outward sacrifice: sith gthe wise men offered giftes vnto Christ, hthe faithfull Iewes at the altar, ilay men and women at the Masse; and yet nether any of them were Massing-priests, nor their offerings, Massing-hosts. Much lesse doth it proue it, as Malachie applyeth it to the offering of incense. For, as incense signifieth the prayers of the Saintes: so to offer incense must be to sacrifice those prayers. But the sacrifice of prayers is a spirituall sacrifice. Wherfore the word to offer, doth not proue your outward sacrifice of the Masse. ⟨p. 563⟩And so the first reason is gone. The second foloweth: which is no sounder then the former. For why doth Allen say, that the sacrifice spoken of in Malachie is one: and therefore betokeneth not spirituall sacrifices, the which are as many as there are Christian good workes?
Hart. Why? Because the text of the Prophet Malachi saith that there is offered a clean oblation, or offering, as you call it. And offering is spoken of one, not of many. For else he should have said, offerings, not offering.
Hart. Why? Because the text of the Prophet Malachie saith that there is offered a cleane oblation, or offering, as you call it. And offering is spoken of one, not of many. For els he should haue saide, offerings, not offering.
Rainoldes. So. And do you think that he who said to God, ksacrifice & offering thou art not delighted with, or (as you translate it) host and oblation thou wouldest not: did mean the Mass by that host?
Rainoldes. So. And doo you thinke that he who said to God, ksacrifice & offering thou art not delited with, or (as you translate it) host and oblation thou wouldest not: did meane the Masse by that host?
Hart. The Mass? No. He meant the hosts and oblations of the old law. For they are the words of the Prophet David, spoken of the legal and carnal sacrifices of the Jews.
Hart. The Masse? No. He meant the hostes and oblations of the old law. For they are the wordes of the Prophet Dauid, spoken of the legall and carnall sacrifices of the Iewes.
Rainoldes. The Jews? Nay: the text of the Prophet David saith that God misliked host and oblation; it saith not, hosts and oblations. Wherefore sith he speaketh of one, not of many; and the carnal sacrifices of the Jews were many, but the sacrifice of the Mass is one, as you say: it seemeth he should mean that. A point some what dangerous for the host, which your Priests lift up to be adored. More dangerous for them, who live by lifting it up.
Rainoldes. The Iewes? Nay: the text of the Prophet Dauid saith that God mislyked host and oblation; it saith not, hostes and oblations. Wherefore sith he speaketh of one, not of many; and the carnall sacrifices of the Iewes were many, but the sacrifice of the Masse is one, as you say: it séemeth he should meane that. A point some what dangerous for the host, which your Priests lift vp to be adored. More dangerous for them, who liue by lifting it vp.
Hart. Our adoration of the host is good, in spite of all heretics, and not reproved by the Prophet. For, although he saith, host and oblation thou wouldest not: yet is it plain he meaneth the sacrifices of the Jews by *a figure of speech, in which a part is used for the whole, and one for many; as host, and oblation, for hosts, and oblations.
Hart. Our adoration of the host is good, in spite of all heretikes, and not reproued by the Prophet. For, although he saith, host and oblation thou wouldest not: yet is it plaine he meaneth the sacrifices of the Iewes by *a figure of spéech, in which a part is vsed for the whole, and one for many; as host, and oblation, for hostes, and oblations.
Rainoldes. Then Allen's second reason is not worth a shoebuckle to prove that the sacrifice of the Mass is meant by the oblation in Malachi. For the word loblation, or offering, which he useth in his own language, is used likewise still, mas of one, not as of many, through all the old testament. Wherefore if the sacrifices of the Jews were many, which nevertheless are called not offerings, but offering: the same word applied to the sacrifices of Christians can not enforce them to be one. Howbeit, were they one, to grant you that by a supposal: yet might ⟨p. 564⟩that one sacrifice be a spiritual sacrifice, and so your Mass no whit the nearer. For as the Prophet nIsaiah saith that the Gentiles shall be an offering to the Lord, using othe same word that the Prophet Malachi: so the Apostle pPaul exhorteth them with Isaiah to present their bodies, a living qsacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, speaking of their sundry sacrifices as one; as also, in a mystery, rwe that are many are one body. But without supposal, the course of the text doth import rather that the Prophet, saying, there is offered an offering, doth mean not one, but many, by 1that figure which you touched: as by 2an other figure he saith, it is offered, meaning, it shall be offered. For 10the Lord declaring his detestation of the sacrifices of the Jewish Priests, saith that the will not accept an offering at their hand: but uthe Gentiles shall offer to him a clean offering, which he meaneth of the contrary that he will accept. And this he showeth farther, where, touching it again, he saith 13it shall be offered unto him in righteousness, yand shall be acceptable to him. Now, the offering that is zacceptable to God from the Gentiles in the new testament, is all sorts of spiritual sacrifices and good works. By the offering therefore mentioned in Malachi there are many sacrifices meant, not one only. Which yet your old translation maketh more evident, opening the meaning of the Hebrew word by terming it sacrifices, aThey shall offer *sacrifices to the Lord in righteousness. Wherefore sith our offering that should please God in the time of the gospel, is sacrifices by the judgement of your old translation, which byou in no case may refuse; and sacrifices can not be meant of the Mass, for that is one sacrifice, but of spiritual sacrifices it may, for they are many, as Allen's second reason saith:
Rainoldes. Then Allens second reason is not worth a shoobuckle to proue that the sacrifice of ye Masse is meant by the oblation in Malachie. For the word loblation, or offering, which he vseth in his owne language, is vsed likewise still, mas of one, not as of many, through all the olde testament. Wherefore if the sacrifices of the Iewes were many, which neuerthelesse are called not offerings, but offering: the same worde applyed to the sacrifices of Christians can not inforce them to be one. Howbeit, were they one, to graunt you that by a supposall: yet might ⟨p. 564⟩that one sacrifice be a spirituall sacrifice, and so your Masse no whit the neerer. For as the Prophet nEsay saith that the Gentiles shalbe an offering to the Lord, vsing othe same worde that the Prophet Malachie: so the Apostle pPaul exhorteth them with Esay to present their bodies, a liuing qsacrifice, holy, acceptable vnto God, speaking of their sundry sacrifices as one; as also, in a mysterie, rwe that are many are one body. But without supposall, the course of the text doth import rather that the Prophet, saying, there is offered an offering, doth meane not one, but many, by 1that figure which you touched: as by 2an other figure he saith, it is offered, meaning, it shall be offered. For 10the Lord declaring his detestation of the sacrifices of the Iewish Priests, saith that the will not accept an offering at their hand: but u
l[Greek or Hebrew]〈non-Latin alphabet〉
m[Greek or Hebrew] only in the singular number, and never [Greek or Hebrew] in the plural.〈non-Latin alphabet〉 onely in the singular number, and neuer 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 in the plurall.
you see, we must conclude on his own principles, that the clean offering, which Malachi writeth of, doth signify the spiritual sacrifices of Christians, and not the sacrifice of the Mass. The third and fourth reasons have greater show, but lesser weight. For, though it be true that spiritual sacrifices of praying to God and doing good to men are common to the Jews with us, and therefore may seem not to be the offering spoken of in Malachi, which, beside that it is proper to the Gospel and the Gentiles, it should succeed also the sacrifices of the Jews, and be offered in their stead: ⟨p. 565⟩yet if we mark the difference that the scriptures put between the Jewish worship of God in the law, and the Christian in the gospel, that seeming will melt as snow before the sun. For in the law of Moses, the Jews, cto the intent that both their redemption by the death of Christ & duty of thankfulness which they did owe to God for it, might still be set before them as in a figure & shadow; were willed dto offer beasts without spot & blemish in sacrifice, with ceremonies thereto annexed, and to offer them ein the place that God should choose, which was fthe city of Jerusalem, and gthe sanctuary, that is to say, the temple built therein. Now Christ, in the gospel, when that was fulfilled which the temple of Jerusalem and sacrifices did represent, showed that hthe time of reformation was come, and removed that worship both in respect of the place and of the manner of it. For as it was prophesied that ihe should destroy the city and the sanctuary, kand cause the sacrifice and offering to cease: so him self taught that lnow the Father would not be worshipped in Jerusalem, nor mas the Jews did worship him, but nhe would be worshipped in spirit and truth. The Christian worship therefore that did succeed the Jewish, doth differ from it in two points: one, that it worshippeth God not in Jerusalem, but in all places; an other, that it worshippeth him in spirit, and truth; in spirit, without othe carnal ceremonies & rites; in truth, without pthe shadows of the law of Moses. The which sort of worship seeing qhe requireth of the true worshippers, that is of all the Saints, his servants; and in the new testament rthe Gentiles by the Gospel are called to be Saints:
you see, we must conclude on his owne principles, that the cleane offering, which Malachie writeth of, doth signifie the spirituall sacrifices of Christians, and not the sacrifice of the Masse. The third and fourth reasons haue greater shew, but lesser weight. For, though it be true that spirituall sacrifices of praying to God and doing good to men are common to the Iewes with vs, and therefore may seeme not to be the offering spoken of in Malachie, which, beside that it is proper to the Gospell and the Gentiles, it should succeed also the sacrifices of the Iewes, and be offered in their steede: ⟨p. 565⟩yet if we marke the difference that the scriptures put betweene the Iewish worship of God in the law, and the Christian in the gospel, that séeming wil melt as snow before the sunne. For in the law of Moses, the Iewes, cto the intent that both their redemption by the death of Christ & dutie of thankfulnesse which they did owe to God for it, might stil be set before them as in a figure & shadow; were willed dto offer beastes without spot & blemish in sacrifice, with ceremonies thereto annexed, and to offer them ein the place that God should choose, which was fthe citie of Ierusalem, and gthe sanctuarie, that is to say, the temple built therein. Now Christ, in the gospell, when that was fulfilled which the temple of Ierusalem and sacrifices did represent, shewed that hthe time of reformation was come, and remoued that worship both in respect of the place and of the maner of it. For as it was prophecied that ihe should destroy the citie and the sanctuary, kand cause the sacrifice and offering to cease: so him selfe taught that lnow the Father would not be worshipped in Ierusalem, nor m
the worship, that is proper to the Gospel and the Gentiles, is the true spiritual worship of God, the sreasonable serving of him by tgodliness, and ugood works, in righteousness, and true holiness; even xthe offering up of spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. And thus you may see the weakness of those cavils which are brought to prove that our spiritual sacrifices cannot be the offering whereof God in Malachi saith it shall be offered to him in every place. For the former of them, that spiritual sacrifices of prayers and works are common to the Jews with us, deceiveth with a fallacy: because ou• spiritual are spiritual merely, whereas they had carnal sacrifices with their spiritual. The later doth ⟨p. 566⟩discover this fraud of the former, but with an other fraud. For in that it saith, that praying, fasting, and the works of charity were joined to their sacrifices: it showeth that their worship (though in part spiritual) was not spiritual merely. But in that it gathereth thereof, that these things cannot succeed their sacrifices, there is an other fallacy: because although the worship of God were still spiritual, as 5he is still a spirit, and so no worship may succeed, for how can a thing succeed it self? yet, the same in substance came forth in sundry manners, and so one manner of it might succeed an other. As 6the word of God, touching the salvation of men by faith in Christ, was always the same: but uttered in sundry manners by the Prophets, and by Christ. In which sort the worship of God was ordered also: by the Prophets, acovertly, under the veils of ceremonies; by Christ, bplainly and simply. Wherefore, as the doctrine of Christ did succeed the doctrine of the Prophets, both the same doctrine, but taught by Christ more clearly, more darkly by the Prophets: so the spiritual worship of God in the Gospel succeeded his spiritual worship in the law, both the same worship, but laden with ceremonies & shadows in the law, disburdened of them in the Gospel.
the worship, that is proper to the Gospell and the Gentiles, is the true spirituall worship of God, the sreasonable seruing of him by tgodlines, and ugood workes, in righteousnes, and true holines; euen xthe offering vp of spirituall sacrifices acceptable to God by Iesus Christ. And thus you may sée the weakenes of those cauils which are brought to proue that our spirituall sacrifices cannot be the offering whereof God in Malachie saith it shall be offered to him in euery place. For the former of them, that spirituall sacrifices of prayers and workes are common to the Iewes with vs, deceiueth with a fallacie: because ou• spirituall are spirituall méerely, whereas they had carnall sacrifices with their spirituall. The later doth ⟨p. 566⟩discouer this fraude of the former, but with an other fraude. For in that it saith, that praying, fasting, and the workes of charity were ioyned to their sacrifices: it sheweth that their worship (though in part spiritual) was not spiritual méerely. But in that it gathereth thereof, that these things cannot succeede their sacrifices, there is an other fallacie: because although the worship of God were still spirituall, as 5hée is still a spirit, and so no worship may succéede, for how can a thing succéede it selfe? yet, the same in substance came foorth in sundry maners, and so one maner of it might succéede an other. As 6the word of God, touching the saluation of men by faith in Christ, was alwayes the same: but vttered in sundry maners by the Prophets, and by Christ. In which sort the worship of God was ordered also: by the Prophets, acouertly, vnder the vailes of ceremonies; by Christ, bplainly and simply. Wherefore, as the doctrine of Christ did succéede the doctrine of the Prophets, both the same doctrine, but taught by Christ more cléerely, more darkely by the Prophets: so the spirituall worship of God in the Gospell succéeded his spirituall worship in the law, both the same worship, but laden with ceremonies & shadows in the law, disburdned of them in the Gospell.
Hart. I can not see those fallacies which you charge D. Allen with. For if the Jews did offer prayers to God and other such spiritual sacrifices, as they did: then is it true, as he saith, that spiritual sacrifices are common unto them with us. And if they be common unto them with us, it followeth, in my judgement, that ours succeed not theirs: sith to succeed, is to come after; and how may that come after which did go before?
Hart. I can not sée those fallacies which you charge D. Allen with. For if the Iewes did offer prayers to God and other such spirituall sacrifices, as they did: then is it true, as he saith, that spirituall sacrifices are common vnto them with vs. And if they be common vnto them with vs, it foloweth, in my iudgement, that ours succeede not theirs: sith to succeede, is to come after; and how may that come after which did go before?
they serue to certifie them that their prayers are come vp before God, so they might rather offer their prayers to God, then the Saintes in heauen, who haue no such ministery to serue the Saintes on earth: yet because this Angell standing with a censer at the altar of incense to burne perfume before God, is set forth as dooing that duetie,
〈non-Latin alphabet〉〈…〉 the Greeke Fathers, in the Latin, a word answering thereto: as incensum, August. contr. aduers. leg. l. 1. cap. 20. or odores incensi, Cypr. contr. Iudaeos l. 1. c. 16.
the Gentiles shall offer to him a cleane offering, which he meaneth of the contrarie that he will accept. And this he sheweth farther, where, touching it againe, he saith
acceptable to God from the Gentiles in the new testament, is all sortes of spirituall sacrifices and good workes. By the offering therefore mentioned in Malachie there are many sacrifices meant, not one onely. Which yet your olde translation maketh more euident, opening the meaning of the Hebrew word by terming it sacrifices,
sacrifices to the Lord in righteousenesse. Wherefore sith our offering that should please God in the time of the gospell, is sacrifices by the iudgement of your old translation, which
you in no case may refuse; and sacrifices can not be meant of the Masse, for that is one sacrifice, but of spirituall sacrifices it may, for they are many, as Allens second reason saith:
he would be worshipped in spirit and truth. The Christian worship therefore that did succéede the Iewish, doth differ from it in two pointes: one, that it worshippeth God not in Ierusalem, but in all places; an other, that it worshippeth him in spirit, and truth; in spirit, without
