A reply to an answer made of M. Doctor Whitgifte Against the admonition to…A replye to an ansvvere made of M. Doctor VVhitgifte Against the admonition to…

Now I will come to Master Doctors reasons which he hath in the hundred and fourteen / and a hundred and fifteen pages / where he granteth that there were elders in every church in times past / but saith that it ought not now so to be. For sayeth he / the times alter the government / and it can not be governed in the time of prosperity / as in the time of persecution / under a christian prince as under a tyrant. Thus he sayeth / but showeth no reason / bringeth no proof / declareth not how nor why prosperity will not bear the Elders as well as persecution / neither why they may not be under a godly prince as well as under a tyrant / onles this be a reason / that because the godly prince doth nourish the church as a civil magistrate / therefore the ancients may not nourish it as Ecclesiastical overseers.

Now I will come to Mayster Doctors reasons which he hath in the hundreth and fourteene / and a hundred and fifteene pages / where he graunteth that there were elders in euery church in tymes past / but sayth that it ought not now so to bee. For sayeth hee / the tymes alter the gouernment / and it can not be gouerned in the tyme of prosperitie / as in the tyme of persecution / vnder a christian prince as vnder a tyrant. Thus he sayeth / but sheweth no reason / bringeth no proofe / declareth not how nor why prosperity will not beare the Elders as well as persecution / neyther why they may not be vnder a godly prince as well as vnder a tyrant / onles thys be a reason / that because the godly prince doth nourishe the church as a cyuill magistrate / therefore the auncientes may not nourish it as Ecclesiasticall ouerseers.

Now seeing Master Doctor can show us no cause why they may not as well be now / as in the time of the Apostles / as well under a christian prince as under a tyrant / I will show him that although they be always necessary / yet there is better cause why they should rather be now then in the apostles times / greater necessity under a christian prince / then under a tyrant. First of all in the apostles times it is known that the gifts of the spirit of wisdom / discretion / knowledge / enduring of travail / were poured forth more plentifully then ever they were / either before / or shall be after. By reason whereof the pastors and ministers of the churches that were then / were (I speak generally / and of the estate of the whole Church) better furnished with the gifts needful for their ministry / then are the ministers of these days. Whereupon I conclude that if the aid and assistance of the pastor by the Elders / was thought necessary by the apostles in those times / when the ministers were so well / and so richly replenished with such gifts / much more is that aid and assistance meet for the ministers of these days / wherein their gifts of discretion and knowledge / and diligence / are not so plentiful. For if they whose eye sight was so clear to perceive / whose hands so nimble to execute / had need for their aid / of other eyes & other hands / then the ministers now / whose eyes are dimmer / and hands heavier then theirs were / have much more need of this aid then they had.