The second reply of Thomas CartwrightThe second replie of Thomas Cartwright

What need this going about the bush? I speak off the visible church / called by the preaching off the gospel: not off those whose calling is yet hidden / and folded up in God's election. And of those I say / not as you (for what can you else do:) untruly report / that they can not err in choosing their pastor: but that they are not such: ignorant dotterels / as you would make us believe / and such as have no taste to discern between good and bad / holy and unholy. And this knowledge / and discretion off good and evil / is not only in those which are effectually called: but in those also which have only the outward calling / without the spirit off sanctification / and adoption off the children off God. So that the pretence off such ignorance as you speak off / can not fall into any which are off the visible church off God. The D. could not hale in the corrupt interpretation off the pope in this place / to help to make up his answer / but he must ascribe a notable untruth unto me / that I should go about to prove, that the church can not err in the election off the minister. Where have I pretended any such thing? or what need have I to prove that? As if I could no otherwise drive the bishop from this sole election / onles I could prove that the people can not err in their election: Or as if bishops elections were without danger off error / so that he which will change them / must be driven to seek for such electors / as no error can take hold off. And if any bars were strong enough / to keep your tongue from this untrue dealing: my words which follow by and by after / wherein I confess the church may err, had been sufficient to restrain it.

What neede this goinge abowte the bushe? I speake off the visible churche / called by the preaching off the gospell: not off those whose callinge is yet hydden / and folded vp in Godes electiō. And of those I saie / not as yow (for what can yow els doo:) vntrewly reporte / that they can not erre in chusing their pastor: but that they are not such: ignorant dottrels / as yow woulde make vs beleue / ād such as haue no taste to discerne betwene good and bad / holie and vnholie. And this knowledge / and discretion off good and euill / is not onely in those whiche are effectually called: but in those also vvhich haue onely the outward callinge / without the spirite off sanctification / and adoption off the children off God. So that the pretence off suche ignorance as yow speake off / can not fall into anie whiche are off the visible church off God. The D. coulde not hale in the corrupte interpretation off the pope in this place / to helpe to make vp his answer / but he muste ascribe a notable vntrewthe vnto me / that I shoulde goe abowte to proue, that the churche can not erre in the election off the minister. Where haue I pretended any suche thinge? or what neede haue I to proue that? As if I coulde no otherwise driue the bishopp from this sole election / onles I coulde proue that the people can not erre in their electiō: Or as if bishoppes elections were without danger off error / so that he whiche will change them / muste be driuen to seeke for suche electors / as no error can take holde off. And iff any barres were stronge enowghe / to kepe yowr tonge from this vntrew dealinge: my wordes which followe by and by after / wherin I confesse the church maie erre, had beene sufficient to restraine yt.