The second reply of Thomas CartwrightThe second replie of Thomas Cartwright

That he addeth / if it be according to the form of that church where he is called: is but a begging off the question. For it being in question whether every calling that any church useth / be lawful / and seeing the minister can not be assured off his outward calling / oneles it be lawful: it followeth that he which presumeth one / must needs presume the other. Upon Musculus saying / that the thrusting off the minister upon the church without her election, draweth bondage, &c. and the D affirming / that such elections are meet for the church, under the christian Magistrate: I concluded that thereby great injury was done to the Christian Magistrate / given off God not only to preserve / but to increase the churches liberty. To all which first the D. answereth / that he giveth nothing to the magistrate but which belongeth unto him, and that it is the magistrates right to use that kind of appointing off ministers, which he thinketh good: which is a gross begging off that in controversy.

That he addeth / yf yt be according to the forme of that church where he is called: is but a begging off the question. For it being in question whether euery calling that any church vseth / be lawfull / and seing the minister can not be assured off his owtward calling / oneles yt be lawfull: it followeth that he vvhich presumeth one / must needes presume the other. Vppon Musculus saying / that the thrustinge off the minister vppon the church vvithout her election, dravveth bondage, &c. and the D affirming / that suche elections are meet for the church, vnder the christian Magistrate: I concluded that therby great iniurie was doone to the Christian Magistrate / giuen off God not onely to preserue / but to encrease the churches libertie. To all vvhich firste the D. answereth / that he giueth nothing to the magistrate but which belongeth vnto him, and that yt is the magistrates right to vse that kinde of appoincting off ministers, which he thincketh good: which is a grosse begging off that in controuersie.

Secondly he saith / that the pastors had never better cause to obey their pastors, never less cause to complain off bondage, and constraint, then now when the pastors are chosen without the consent off the churches: which as it is barely said / hath no reason to lean upon / is confuted by common sense: so it is directly contrary to that Musculus his author / affirmeth in the words before alleged. Only for the matter off liberty / he allegeth that the true liberty of the church, consisteth in liberty of conscience, and freedom from false doctrine: whereunto I answer / that it consisteth in them / but not only. for to use assemblies for the ministering of the word / and Sacraments / &c. is a liberty of the church: And they are not mine / but Musc. words: which calleth the election by the church / a liberty, and the other a bondage of the church. I imagine not the corrupt estate to be in the laws, and government off the Christian magistrate: but contrariwise give that virtue to his godly government / that the estate off religion may be easily pure with him: which can be hardly / or not without great danger / pure without him. You if not in words