A67927:6057
Acts and monuments of matters most special and memorable, happening in the Church. [vol. 2, part 2] with an universal history of the same, wherein is set forth at large the whole race and course of the Church, from the primitive age to these latter times of ours, with the bloody times, horrible troubles, and great persecutions against the true martyrs of Christ, sought and wrought as well by heathen emperors, as now lately practised by Romish prelates, especially in this realm of England and Scotland. Newly revised and recognised, partly also augmented, and now the fourth time again published and recommended to the studious reader, by the author (through the help of Christ our Lord) John Fox, which desireth thee good reader to help him with thy prayer.Actes and monuments of matters most speciall and memorable, happenyng in the Church. [vol. 2, part 2] with an vniuersall history of the same, wherein is set forth at large the whole race and course of the Church, from the primitiue age to these latter tymes of ours, with the bloudy times, horrible troubles, and great persecutions agaynst the true martyrs of Christ, sought and wrought as well by heathen emperours, as nowe lately practised by Romish prelates, especially in this realme of England and Scotland. Newly reuised and recognised, partly also augmented, and now the fourth time agayne published and recommended to the studious reader, by the author (through the helpe of Christ our Lord) Iohn Foxe, which desireth thee good reader to helpe him with thy prayer.
London: printed by John Daye, 1583London: printed by Iohn Daye, 1583
No title page in the transcription: set from the catalogue record.
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Lang. Thus I prove it, that as sin entered into the world, & by the means of one that sinned, all men became sinners, the which was by Adam, so by the obedience of man,1 righteousness came upon all men that had sinned, & set them as free as they were before their fall, the which was by Jesus Christ. Rom. v.
Lang. Thus I prooue it, that as sinne entred into the world, & by the meanes of one that sinned, all men became sinners, the whiche was by Adam, so by the obedience of man,1 righteousnesse came vpon all men that had sinned, & sette them as free as they were before theyr fall, the whiche was by Iesus Christ. Rom. v.
Wood. Oh Lord, what an overthrow have you given your self here in original sin, and yet can not see it? For in proving that we have free will, you have denied quite original sin. For here you have declared that we be set as free by the death of Christ, as Adam was before his fall, & I am sure Adam had no original sin before his fall. If we be as free now as he was then, I marvel wherefore Paul complained thrice to God, to take away the sting of it, God making him answer, and saying: My grace is sufficient for thee. These words with divers other, approveth original sin in us: but not that it shall hurt Gods elect people, but that his grace is sufficient for all his.1 But you say in one place, it is not without baptism: and in an other place you put it away quite by the death of Christ: and in very deed you have spoken truer in the matter than you be aware of. For all that believe in Christ, are baptised in the blood of Christ that he shed on the Cross, & in the water that he sweat for pain & putting away of our sins at his death. And yet I say with David in the 51. Psalm: In sin was I borne, and in sin hath my mother conceived me: but in no such sin that shall be imputed, because I am borne of God by faith, as Saint John saith. Therefore I am blessed,2 as saith the Prophet: Because the Lord imputeth not my sin, and not because I have no sin: but because God hath not imputed my sins. Not of our own deserving, but of his free mercy he hath saved us. Where is now your free will become that you spake of?3 If we have free will, then our salvation cometh of our own self, & not of God: the which is a great blasphemy against God and his word. 4For Saint James saith: Every good gift, and every perfect gift cometh from above, from the father of light, with whom is no variableness, neither is he changed into darkness. Of his own will he begat us. For the wind bloweth where it lusteth, and we hear the sound thereof, as saith S. John: But we cannot tell from whence it cometh, 5neither whether it goeth: Even so is it with every one that is borne of God. For S. Paul saith: It is God that worketh in us the will and also the deed, 6even of good will. Seeing then that every good and perfect gift cometh from above, & lighteth upon whom it pleaseth God, and that he worketh in us both the will and the deed:
Wood. Oh Lorde, what an ouerthrowe haue you geuen your selfe here in originall sinne, and yet can not see it? For in prouing that we haue free wil, you haue denied quite original sinne. For here you haue declared that we be set as free by the death of Christ, as Adam was before his fall, & I am sure Adam had no originall sinne before his fall. If we be as free nowe as he was then, I maruell wherefore Paul complayned thrise to God, to take away the sting of it, God making him aunswere, and saying: My grace is sufficient for thee. These wordes with diuers other, approueth originall sinne in vs: but not that it shall hurt Gods electe people, but that his grace is sufficient for all his.1 But you saye in one place, it is not without baptisme: and in an other place you put it away quite by the death of Christ: and in verye deed you haue spokē truer in the matter thē you be aware of. For all that beleue in Christ, are baptised in the bloude of Christ that he shed on the Crosse, & in the water that he swet for payne & putting away of our sinnes at his death. And yet I say with Dauid in the 51. Psalme: In sinne was I borne, and in sinne hath my mother conceiued me: but in no suche sinne that shall bee imputed, because I am borne of God by fayth, as Sayncte Iohn sayth. Therefore I am blessed,2 as sayth the Prophet: Because the Lorde imputeth not my sinne, and not because I haue no sinne: but because God hath not imputed my sinnes. Not of our owne deseruing, but of his free mercy he hath saued vs. Where is now your free will become that you spake of?3 If we haue free will, then our saluation commeth of our owne selfe, & not of God: the which is a great blasphemy agaynst God and his word. 4For Saynt Iames sayth: Euery good gift, and euery perfect gift commeth from aboue, from the father of light, with whō is no variablenes, neither is he chaunged into darcknesse. Of his owne will he begate vs. For the winde bloweth where it lusteth, and we heare the soūd therof, as sayth S. Iohn: But we cannot tell from whence it commeth, 5neither whether it goeth: Euen so is it with euery one that is borne of God. For S. Paule sayth: It is God that woorketh in vs the will and also the deed, 6euen of good will. Seing then that euery good and perfect gift commeth from aboue, & lighteth vpon whom it pleaseth God, and that he worketh in vs both the will and the deede:
me think all the rest of our own will is little worth,1 or nought at all, unless it be to wickedness. So me think here be places enough to prove that a man hath no free will to do good of himself: with a hundred places moe, that I could recite if time did serve. And as for original sin, I think I have declared my mind therein, how it remaineth in man: which you can not deny, unless you deny the word of God. Now, if you will suffer me, I will prove my saying of Jacob and Esau, that I brought in, to prove that faith was before baptism, and you refused it, because (you said) Jacob was not baptised.2 If you will give me leave, you shall see what I can say therein: for me think you think my talk long. This I said, because I saw he was sore offended at my sayings.
me thinke all the reste of our owne will is little worthe,1 or nought at all, vnles it be to wickednes. So me think here be places enough to proue that a man hath no free will to doe good of himselfe: with a hundred places moe, that I could recite if time did serue. And as for originall sinne, I thinke I haue declared my mind therin, how it remaineth in man: whiche you can not denye, vnlesse you deny the word of God. Now, if you will suffer me, I will proue my saying of Iacob and Esau, that I brought in, to proue that faith was before baptisme, and you refused it, because (you sayd) Iacob was not baptised.2 If you will geue me leaue, you shall see what I can say therin: for me think you think my talke long. This I sayd, because I saw he was sore offended at my sayinges.
Lang. Say what you can, For it availeth me to say nothing to you.1 For I was desired to send for you, to teach you, and there will no words of mine take place in you: but you go about to reprove me. Say what you will for me.
Lang. Saye what you canne, For it auayleth me to saye nothing to you.1 For I was desired to sende for you, to teache you, and there will no wordes of mine take place in you: but you goe about to reproue me. Saye what you will for me.
Wood. I take not upon me to teach you, but to answer to such things as you lay unto my charge: and I speak not mine own mind, but the mind of the holy Ghost, written by the Prophets and Apostles. Will you give me leave to answer briefly in that matter, that you may report to other what I hold? And he said, he was contented. But I think it was for nothing, but to have caught vantage of my words.
Wood. I take not vpon me to teach you, but to aunswere to such thinges as you lay vnto my charge: and I speake not mine owne minde, but the minde of the holy Ghoste, written by the Prophetes and Apostles. Wyll you geue me leaue to aunswere briefly in that matter, that you may report to other what I holde? And he sayd, he was contē ted. But I thinke it was for nothing, but to haue caughte vauntage of my wordes.
Wood. 1First, if you be remembered, you said, that if my child had dyed without baptism, if I had been the cause that it had not been baptised, the child should have been damned, and I too. How say you?
Wood. 1First, if you be remembred, you said, that if my child had dyed without baptisme, if I had bene the cause that it had not bene baptised, the child should haue bene damned, and I too. How say you?
Lang. Yea that you should.
Wood. That is most untrue. For the Prophet sayeth: The father shall not bear the child's offences, nor the child the fathers offences: but the soul that sinneth shall dye. 1What could the child have done withal, if it had died without baptism? the child could not do withal. How say you unto this? And I am sure: that which I brought in in the old Law, to prove that faith is before baptism, is not disagreeable unto the word. For Circumcision was a figure of baptism. And that I may bring to prove baptism by, as well as S. Peter did: for he brought in Noes flood,2 which was a long time before Jacob & Esau, to prove baptism, saying: While the Ark was a preparing, 3wherein few (that is to say) eight souls were saved by water, like as Baptism also now saveth us, not in putting away of the filth of the flesh, but there is • good conscience consenting to God. Here Peter proveth, that the water had not saved Noah and the other seven, no more then it saved all the rest, if it had not been for their faith, which faith now saveth us: not in putting away of the filthy sin of the flesh, by the washing of the water, but by a good conscience consenting unto God. But you said: If they be baptised with the water, if they dye before they come to years of discretion, they be all saved: the which S. Peter is clean against, unless you grant that children have faith before they be baptised. Now I ask you what consent of conscience the children have, being infants. For you say they believe not, before they be Baptised: Ergo, then they consent not to be Baptised, because they believe not. And by this it followeth that none shall be saved, although they be baptised. I would fain see how you can answer to this.
Wood. That is moste vntrue. For the Prophete sayeth: The father shall not beare the childes offences, nor the childe the fathers offences: but the soule that sinneth shall dye. 1What could the child haue done withal, if it had died without baptism? the childe coulde not do withall. How say you vnto this? And I am sure: that which I brought in in the olde Law, to proue that fayth is before baptisme, is not disagreeable vnto the word. For Circūcision was a figure of baptisme. And that I may bring to proue baptisme by, as wel as S. Peter did: for he brought in Noes sloude,
Lang. You are the most perverse man that ever I knew. You wot not what you say. The children are baptised in their *Godfathers and Godmothers faith, and that is the good conscience that S. Peter speaketh of: and the Christening is the keeping of the law, that S. Paul speaketh of, saying: neither is Circumcision any thing worth, nor uncircumcision any thing worth, but keeping of the law is altogether. Like as the Circumcision was the keeping of the old law, so is baptism the keeping of the new law.
Lang. You are the most peruerse man that euer I knewe. You wote not what you say. The children are baptised in theyr *Godfathers and Godmothers fayth, and that is the good conscience that S. Peter speaketh of: and the Christening is the keeping of the law, that S. Paule speaketh of, saying: neither is Circumcision any thing worth, nor vncircūcision any thing worth, but keping of the lawe is altogether. Like as the Circumcision was the keping of the old law, so is baptisme the keeping of the new law.
Wood. Ah, me thought if you would talk with me, you should be fain to bring in the old law, to maintain your sayings by (for all that you refused it) when I brought it in. But yet it serveth not for your purpose, so much as you think for. For here you have confessed that neither circumcision availeth, nor uncircumcision: the which you your self have coupled with Baptism, proving that none of them both prevaileth, but keeping of the law is altogether: the which law is kept (you say) by the outward signs: the which is nothing so, for Abraham believed God, & that was counted to him for righteousness: And this was before he was Circumcised.1 So the children believe before they be either Circumcised, or Baptised, according to my first saying of Jacob and Esau: Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. These words declared that Jacob had faith in his mothers womb: also John Baptist was sanctified in his mothers womb, and therefore it was counted to them for righteousness: and I am sure, if they had dyed before, they had either received Circumcision or Baptism as concerning the outward deed, they should have been saved. For Gods gifts and callings are such, that he cannot repent him of them. But by your saying he doth both repent and change. For you say, keeping of the outward law is altogether. But a bad excuse is as good as none at all. And where you said, the children be Baptised in their Godfathers and Godmothers faith, they being all unbelievers, in what faith is that child baptised then? in none at all, by your own saying. Which words made him stamp and stare.
Wood. Ah, me thought if you would talke with me, you should be fayne to bring in the old law, to mainteine your sayinges by (for all that you refused it) when I brought it in. But yet it serueth not for your purpose, so muche as you think for. For here you haue confessed that neither circumcision auayleth, nor vncircūcision: the which you your selfe haue coupled with Baptisme, prouing that none of them both preuaileth, but keping of the law is altogether: the which law is kept (you say) by the outward signes: the which is nothing so, for Abrahā beleued God, & that was counted to him for righteousnes: And this was before he was Circumcised.1 So the children beleue before they be either Circumcised, or Baptised, according to my first saying of Iacob and Esau: Iacob I loued, but Esau I hated. These wordes declared that Iacob hadde fayth in hys mothers wombe: also Iohn Baptist was sanctified in his mothers wombe, and therfore it was counted to them for righteousnesse: and I am sure, if they had dyed before, they had eyther receiued Circumcision or Baptisme as concerning the outward deed, they should haue bene saued. For Gods giftes and callinges are such, that he cannot repent him of them. But by your saying he doth both repent and chaūge. For you say, keeping of the outwarde law is altogether. But a bad excuse is as good as none at all. And where you sayd, the children be Baptised in their Godfathers and Godmothers fayth, they being all vnbeleuers, in what fayth is that childe baptised then? in none at all, by your owne saying. Whiche woordes made him stampe and stare.
Lang. What? then you would count that there were very few believers, if there be not one of three that believeth. You enter into Judgement against the people. Belike you think there be none that believe well unless they be of your mind. In deed then Christs flock were a very little flock.
Lang. What? then you woulde count that there were very few beleeuers, if there be not one of three that beleeueth. You enter into Iudgement agaynst the people. Belike you thinke there be none that beleue well vnlesse they be of your minde. In deed then Christes flocke were a very litle flocke.
Wood. In deed these be Christs words, in the 12. of Luke, the which we may see to be very true. Yea you said, if there were not one amongest three, that were very few. But there is not one amongest three hundred, for any thing that I can see. For if there were, there would not be so many that would seek their neighbours goods & lives as there be.
Wood. In deede these bee Christes woordes, in the 12. of Luke, the which we may see to be very true. Yea you sayd, if there were not one amongest three, that were very few. But there is not one amongest three hundred, for any thing that I can see. For if there were, there would not be so many that would seeke their neighbors goodes & lyues as there be.
Lang. Is the flock of Christ such a little flock as you speak of? you may call it a great flock. How many be there of them: Can you tell me?
Lang. Is the flocke of Christ such a litle flock as you speak of? you may call it a great flock. How many be there of thē: Can you tell me?
Wood. A pretty question, I promise you, it is that you ask me: as though I did make my self equal with God. ⟨p. 1996⟩No, no, you shall catch no such vantage of my words nor I know not how many there be. But I will tell you as nigh as I can. For therefore you look, I am sure, that I should enter into Judgement.
Wood. A prety question, I promise you, it is that you aske me: as though I did make my selfe equall with God. ⟨p. 1996⟩No, no, you shal catch no such vauntage of my words nor I know not how many there be. But I will tell you as nigh as I can. For therefore you looke, I am sure, that I should enter into Iudgement.
Wood. You shall see my judgement in it by and by. First the Prophet: Follow not a multitude to do evil, for they must go the wrong way. For the most go the wrong way. There is one point to know them. Then christ saith in the 7. of Mat. Broad is the way & wide is the gate that leadeth into destruction, and many there be that go in thereat: and strait is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. And in the xii. of Luke, it is written (which words were spoken of Christ) Come you little flock, it is my fathers will to give you a kingdom. The third point is this. In the third of Mark and second of Matthew: You (saith Christ) shall know the tree by the fruits. 1A good tree bringeth forth good fruits, and a bad tree tree bringeth forth bad fruits: So by fruits I know them. For every tree that bringeth not forth good fruits, must be hewn down and cast into the fire (into hell I think Christ meant) and your fruits declare that you be one of them.2 Thus have I proved four ways that the people that shall be saved, is but a small company in comparison of the rest. But if that be not enough, for the proof thereof, I have twenty ways more to prove it by, and you were never the near of your purpose.
Wood. You shall see my iudgement in it by and by. First the Prophet: Follow not a multitude to do euill, for they must go the wrong way. For the most go the wrong way. There is one poynt to know them. Thē christ sayth in the 7. of Mat. Broad is the way & wide is the gate that leadeth into destruction, and many there be that go in thereat: and strayte is the gate, and narrow is the waye that leadeth vnto life, and few there be that finde it. And in the xii. of Luke, it is written (which words were spoken of Christ) Come you little flocke, it is my fathers will to geue you a kyngdome. The third poynt is this. In the thyrd of Mark and second of Mathewe: You (saythe Christe) shall knowe the tree by the frutes. 1A good tree bringeth foorth good fruites, and a badde tree tree bringeth forth bad fruites: So by fruites I know them. For euery tree that bringeth not foorth good fruites, must be hewn downe and cast into ye fire (into hell I thinke Christ meant) and your fruites declare that you be one of them.2
